Ted Williams stove pump

Discussion in 'Fettling Forum' started by Oring, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. Oring United States

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    I have a Ted Williams double burner stove and I’m having problems with the nrv not sealing. I’ve put several different sizes of orings on it but no success. Can I still save this pump or is there another kind of pump I can replace it with?
     
  2. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    You might care to take a look at THIS post and the update to it in December last.
     
  3. Oring United States

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    I’ve seen that very informative post however I can’t get the nrv to seal.
     
  4. Oring United States

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    False alarm! I didn’t get all of the old oring out. The stove now is working perfectly! It hasn’t been lit since I was a kid and I’m 60 years old!
     
  5. Oring United States

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    Thanks Presscall for your posts.
     
  6. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    For future reference, what was the secret?? Which O ring had you not replaced?

    @presscall I hadn't seen your Tilley pump addition to that old Poloron, good job.

    I have noted that my AGM lantern pumps, with a regular old fashioned pip, will work in the Thermos stuff.
     
  7. Oring United States

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    How can I get an AGM lantern pump?
     
  8. Oring United States

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    Majicwrench it was the oring on the nrv on the end of the pump. I used a magnifying glass and seen I didn’t get all of the old oring out. After I got it out I could see a seat for the oring to set in. I also took the valve assembly apart and noticed the tiny hole for the air mixture was plugged. I’m happy to see it running again!
     
  9. Majicwrench

    Majicwrench Subscriber

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    Got it, thanks for the clarification, the confusion was on my end.

    AGM pumps come on old AGM lanterns :)

    If it still leaks or you don't trust it, I would encourage you to put in a euro style NRV as in the post linked above. It's simple and effective.

    I could've gotten a 3burner TW a few years ago if I would have felt like going for a nice drive, still kicking myself.
     
  10. Oring United States

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    It’s working fine but it’s not a smooth stroke. I’ve noticed bits of aluminum from the pump rod, I don’t know if that’s normal. I just thought I would like to have a backup pump since these pumps are so hard to find.
     
  11. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    If your pump has a NRV rather than a check valve it won't be a smooth stroke. The NRV works by having a spring hold the valve closed. When you pump, the valve stays closed until the pressure in the pump tube is great enough to overcome the spring tension. When that happens the valve opens and the air in the pump tube is suddenly released into the fount. So you feel increasing resistance in the first part of the pump stroke then resistance suddenly falls to zero. in action it feel like your hand suddenly slams down the last half of the stroke.

    Since a check valve is open during the entire stroke the whole action has the same amount of resistance. The resistance will gradually increase from stroke to stroke as pressure in the fount mounts but will feel the same for the length of each stroke.
     
  12. Oring United States

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    That’s a good explanation I can tell the difference between the cook stove and my lantern which must have a check valve. Thanks for the info do you know if I can get a back up pump for that stove? Or another pump that will work on that stove?
     
  13. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    @cottage hill bill Yes Reese, in principle, but I’ve innumerable Primuses, Optimi, Burmoses and other classic brassies where the pump action is as smooth as silk.

    The check valve action you speak of is offset by the subtle action of a brassie pump cup ‘play’ offering an air seal on the pump stroke and unrestricted air passage past the pump washer on the pull stroke. Outcome, an excellent action, no worse than a Coleman’s - better, than more recent ones with a plastic cup washer.

    Respectfully,

    Your Brit chum, John
     
  14. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    @presscall John, certainly wasn't casting aspersions on brassies and your experience of them is far greater than mine. I actually own only a handful of brassies and as few Tilleys and Vapalux lanterns. I was merely commenting that the action is different, and to me noticeably different. That shows in the Thermos and Porolon style pumps I've experienced. Where it is most noticeable to me is in the small volume NRV pumps specifically in M1942-MOD and M1950 stoves. All of mine show a marked "push-click" sort of performance. And woe be to he who tries to replace the NRV spring with something scrounged out of the 20 year box on the back of the bench. An ever so slight change in the spring tension means either a NRV that doesn't seal or a pump that can't be pushed hard enough to get air in the fount.

    I have noticed that some folks who have only used Coleman products post a question when they first encounter a NRV pump and ask if there GPA is working properly. The two systems are not a case of better or worse, to me, just different.
     
  15. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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  16. Oring United States

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    My question is, is there a pump I can purchase that will work on this stove that may be better than the original one?
     
  17. cottage hill bill

    cottage hill bill Subscriber

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    Short answer, No. If the seals/o-rings in the pump are up to snuff then it will function quite well as designed.
     
  18. Oring United States

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    Thank you for the response. I imagine the original pump is next to impossible to find. My pump works fine, just would be nice to have a backup pump.