Victoria - NRV detail

Discussion in 'Victoria' started by ArchMc, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. ArchMc

    ArchMc Subscriber

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    The recent post of CASG #10 featuring my Victoria stove has made me realize it's time to get off my duff and add the stove to the Classic Stove Gallery. I found this stove in a shop in Marion, Iowa, in 2007-08 when I was working in Cedar Rapids for a spell. All I could see in the shop was a part of the trivet. Shifting of other items finally revealed a stove I had never even heard of before. They wanted $60, as I recall, and I was happy to pay it. There was no resistance on the pump, even after I replaced the leather. There was a small piece rattling around in the tank, which contained a cork pop and I figured was part of the NRV.

    Making a living and my initial reluctance to tinker with what was obviously an historical stove with an unknown type of pump tube have relegated it to the status of shelf queen ever since. It deserves better.

    The stove, with its well-earned patina. The chained pricker is as I found it. A new wire for it and the fresh pump leather are the only changes I made before the CASG.
    DSC01939.JPG

    A view of the trivet. It's reminiscent, though not identical, to the one on Hans Thornblad's Victoria, and quite different from Christer Carlsson's.
    DSC01941.JPG

    A view without the trivet shows the unusual supports.
    DSC01949.JPG
    The embossed “Victoria”. (These photos were taken post-CASG 10, so the pump tube has been de-soldered.)
    DSC01942.JPG

    @Christer Carlsson noted the asymmetric spirit cup. In this photo it can be seen that the fuel riser tube is off-center where it attaches to the tank.
    DSC01943.JPG

    This asymmetry is all driven by the burner design. The burner tubes are in the shape of a “Y” topped by an upside-down “v”, with the “v” then bent over. (The jet is at the bottom of the bent-over part.) This puts the riser tube off-center. I'm afraid you will just have to imagine this, as the flame spreader and what Doc Mark has colorfully called the “baby-butt” flame plate are not removable, making the burner geometry harder to see. I was unable to get a photo that clarified things.

    Recently I was given an inspection scope as a gift. (This is the tool I was shown using at CASG #10.) Looking down the pump tube (left) reveals a bit of an enigma, as there seems to be no hint of an NRV. Looking into the fuel tank (right), some gyrations allow a glimpse of an even stranger feature.
    DSC01945.JPG DSC01946.JPG

    At the CASG, Ken @snwcmpr and I removed the pump tube, revealing the odd configuration. (All the following photos are courtesy of @Doc Mark Thanks, Mark!)
    d3.jpg

    The bent tube seems to be made of lead – its malleability was surprising to all who handled it. The shape is apparently designed to keep the NRV above the fuel level. Perhaps the lower lobe of the bend is to help support the weight of the pump tube assembly as it rests on the bottom of the tank. The rattling part from the tank fits neatly over the end. The end of the broken spring is on the fitting.
    d4.jpg

    The spring was obviously held in place by the tab on the brass fitting at the end of the lead tube. This whole arrangement took us a couple minutes to figure out at the CASG. It is however well-described in Christer's post, and also in Ian's @igh371 blowlamp post. Neither Christer's Victoria nor Ian's blowlamp have the long tube.
    d5.jpg d6.jpg

    My next step (after the busy desert spring has passed) will be to get some spring wire of the proper diameter and learn how to wind a replacement spring. I'm pretty confident I can get this old girl working again.

    One question is whether this design is newer or older than the one in Christer's post. Perhaps having the fitting on the end of the pump tube (as in Christer's) resulted in fuel leaking into the pump, and the serpentine extension was added to keep the NRV above the fuel. Alternatively, the NRV may have been over-engineered originally to be above fuel level, and simplified in later designs when the pip proved sufficient to keep fuel out of the pump.

    ....Arch
     
  2. Robert Bruce

    Robert Bruce SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Arch, that's very different , hope it all goes well fettling it. Your stove is a real gem, so unusual .

    Cheers
    Rob
     
  3. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark Subscriber

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    Morning, Mac,

    Excellent report, and a wonderful addition to the Gallery!! Well done! It was really interesting, seeing this stove's NRV up close and in person, as I've never seen another one like it!! I know that you will, eventually, get this Lovely Lady up and running, and what an accomplishment that will be!! I very much look forward to seeing her in all her glory, burning as she was intended to do! I remember when you scored this great stove, and I was very happy for you to have found it, and even more so, now that you are working on her!! Thanks, again, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  4. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Good of you to get that on record Arch and well documented.

    More surgical exploration than stove fettling with that umbilicus of a pump extension tube and the use of an endoscope. Well done, appropriate to have the Doctor on hand at the time. Glad the patient survived and is on the mend.

    John
     
  5. Christer Carlsson

    Christer Carlsson Moderator SotM Winner

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    Wow! What an amazing stove. It's nice to see yet another version of this old design.
    Whether this stove is older or newer than the one I have posted is hard to tell, but I should guess newer. But it's really not easy to say.
    Using non-removable pump tubes, like on yours, usually means later.
    Perhaps also the use of round profiled legs rather than out of flat steel could mean a later adaption.

    Very odd with the NRV on the end of a soft tubing. I guess it's not long enough to reach back to be accessible just under the filler hole?
    It doesn't look so, but it would otherwise have been a way to go since the pump tube isn't removable on your version.

    The Victoria seems to have been using a variety of slightly different burners. Perhaps as a result of the feud they had with Svenson (Primus) in 1895 regarding infringement on the latter parts patent 3944. That was about the original "Primus burner".

    Here's some Victoria pictures I took the liberty to borrow from the Technical Museum in Stockholm when I was researching my own stove. It's two different stoves, and they both differ slightly in some details. The wooden pump knob is e.g. changed to a brass one of a design of its own on one of them. The burners are also different.
    As you can see, the one with a fixed pump, like yours, is called No:2, but have a brass knobs for the pump.
    Victoria seems to have been changing costume quite often during her short appearance on the stove market.

    vickan2TM.jpg vickan4TM.jpg vickan3TM.jpg vickan5TM.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2017
  6. snwcmpr

    snwcmpr SotM Winner Subscriber

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    Nice post Mac.
    Let me know what size spring wire you need, I have an abundance of it in many sizes.
     
  7. ArchMc

    ArchMc Subscriber

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    Thanks for your interest and comments. This is a really interesting old stove, and has had something to amaze me many times since I got it.

    John, @presscall the "endoscope" has been a source of some humor between my wife and I, as I've suggested we "go into business" -- she's a nurse and worked a spell at an endoscopy clinic. Maybe we can give discounts for CCS members.;) It does provide another tool for looking into stoves without the need for disassembly. Its business end has an inflexible fitting that's a bit long for making the turns necessary to see all the corners in a fuel tank. Hopefully, later versions will be more compact. It would also be nice if it used a memory card or such, like a regular digital camera -- I had to photograph the screen. Heck of a nice gift, though.

    Christer, @Christer Carlsson my feeling is that it's probably a newer model but, as I said, it's really hard to tell. I know the steel strap legs have tended to be on earlier stoves, but wire was pretty common in the late 19th century, so choice of leg material would be up to the designer. The thing that makes it seem older to me is that long extension tube made of lead. It just seems that all other NRVs are a simplification of that design. Certainly more of a feeling on my part than evidence. We have so few of these stoves that each one seems like a prototype and, for all we know, each one may have been.

    Ken, @snwcmpr I will be measuring the wire soon. The desert spring has thrown another task at me -- friends are coming to visit, prompting a flurry of cleaning by my sweetie, and a load of honey-do's for me. Then next week I have a backpack trip into the Panamint Mountains. Once I get back, I hope to have time for some fettling.

    ....Arch
     
  8. Christer Carlsson

    Christer Carlsson Moderator SotM Winner

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    Yes, it almost feel so.
    I know where another one exactly (as far as I can tell) like yours is.
    I tried to buy it long ago, but perhaps I should ask again. It would be nice to have it in hands and examine to see if the NRV is the same as on yours.