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XGK

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Marc, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. theyellowdog New Zealand

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    lol, the bulin stoves are not made in the same factory as MSR, that is ridiculous.

    Chinese sellers regularly steal and sell replicas of my work, just like Bulin stoves the reproductions are close at a glance, but not close in quality.
     
  2. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Greetings, All,

    I agree with @theyellowdog , 100%! I have one Bulin stove, and whilst it's not a bad stove, once I compared it to the original Trangia/Primus burner, it not near as nice, nor as robust, as the stove it copied. We'll see what Drew says after I talk to him about this, but I'm betting that it's as it always has been: liquid fuel stoves made in the USA, and some gassies made in Korea, if memory serves. I'll take a Korean stove any day, compared to what a see coming out of China, for most things.

    BUT, I must add that "some" of the things that are made in China are actually quite good. When I bought a new gun safe, it was sold by an American company, out of Dallas, Texas. But, when I checked it in the store, the tag on the safe said, "Made in China". I called the company with my obvious questions, and was immediately transferred to the President of the company! He told me that, in order to offer the same products that had heretofore been made in Texas, he built a complete factory in China, and staffed with Quality Control people from the original plant in Texas. They do all their own metalurgy, and quality controls are super strict, and overseen by his American staff members. He promised that my new safe would be exactly of the same quality as it had been when made in Texas, and assured me that, if I was EVER unhappy with it, to call him, and he would give me all my money back, and pay to have the safe picked up at my house and transported back to the factory!!!! Well, that was good enough for me, and I bought the safe. It was exactly as he promised, and of excellent quality, robust, heavy, and fire resistant!!! Couldn't ask for more, actually, and I'm quite happy with my new safe. Not new, actually, as I've now had it for a few years. Just using this as an example that "some" things coming out of China are quite good. For what it's worth...... Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  3. Marc

    Marc United States Subscriber

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    Because it works, and that's engineering(=$$$) they don't have to do. Buy a few of the original device, reverse engineer it, bam instant product/recognition. Copy the fundamentals so they get a decent basic product(well hopefully), then cheap out where the original manufacturer wasn't willing to for a profit. Repeat ad nauseum.

    Their laws when it comes to the intellectual property of others can best be described as "LOL".

    Edit: Some of the copies are actually decent quality. The Honda GX clones come to mind, made by Lifan and Lonquin and Hongfa a dozen other companies. When the engine on your rototiller goes out, do you replace it with a new Honda or Briggs that costs 90% the price of a new tiller, or do you buy the clone that costs 1/3rd that price and will work just fine for longer than you're going to own the tiller? Wish the EPA would let me import a water cooled diesel along those lines. Micro cogen? Yes please.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  4. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    Greetings, Marc, and All,

    I just left a message on Drew Keegan's cell phone, and also sent an email note to him at the MSR website. His regular email seems to be down right now, so hopefully, the note to MSR, ATTN: Drew, will get to him quickly, or that he will call me back at his earliest convenience. I'll share whatever I find here at that time. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  5. Rickybob United Kingdom

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    i had heard that the bulin was a good COPY of the ex, but now i can compare like with like it is painfully apparent that the chassis parts are the same and manufactured on the exact same tooling in the same factory
    this kind of domestic final assembly of foreign made parts has been going on for decades not just in the us but here in the eu, everything from pocket calculators to paslode nail guns, swiss watches and just about anything - all the manufacturing takes place in taiwan or china and the bits get shipped to wherever to be assembled and then get labeled made in the usa or eu etc

    why i ever thought msr would be any different i really do not know, it is no secret that that things have changed since cascade took over
    but i have bought two xgk ex's in twelve years and i was happy to believe the made in the us label both times - of course the label in the stuff sack tells a different story but that's just the bag right?

    i am prepared to believe ( only just ) that the first production ex's were made entirely in the us - but at some point since all the jigs and tooling have been sent to china and they have been banging out the parts there just to ship them to seattle for final assembly, until they started making their own version, and there must be some legal stuff going on about that surely. someone knows

    i suspect that a recent change in legislation in america has required such products to be labeled in a more accurate fashion, hence the change to the label on the dragonfly box

    i will not deny the evidence of my own senses, i have both stoves in front of me as i type this and they contain the same parts

    we are all part of the global economy, when a texan does a job for dollars that a chinese worker will do for pennies and free fags, guess who gets the p45

    too bad if this pees anyone off, i still think msr stuff is excellent but the scales have fallen away from my eyes
     
  6. shagratork

    shagratork United Kingdom Moderator Subscriber

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    Interesting suppositions @Rickybob.
    I am neutral in this topic, but once more I ask that you produce evidence.
    Photographs, documents, box labels, instructions, magazine or book articles, etc.
    You assure us that you have the stoves in front of you. That is great. Take detailed photos to illustrate what you are saying.
     
  7. Marc

    Marc United States Subscriber

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    I would expect that as the parts are very similar, the manufacturing process for both would likely also be very similar, and hence the machining, bending, and forming marks would also be extremely similar, even if done in different factories on different continents.

    I agree, I would like to see evidence for the claims made.

    Also, I wonder if the canister adapter for the T3 would work with the XGK. Anyone know off hand? Off to do research!
     
  8. geeves

    geeves New Zealand Subscriber

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    I would be surprised if a company like Bulin was selling actual MSR stoves under its own name. However they may have purchased old tooling and put it to good use. A lot of their stoves are good copies and they are a big reputable company. MSR would not let them sell MSR product under any other name even if they were making it. Other Chinese companies though you cant be as sure. Im sure we have all heard the story about Jeeps made under license in China. The building was twice the size of the Jeep factory but partitioned down the middle. One day the Jeep representative happened to go round the other side of the building. It was a different car factory making a different branded car that was amazingly similar to the current model Jeep
     
  9. Marc

    Marc United States Subscriber

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    @Doc Mark Any word back from your friend at MSR?
     
  10. Doc Mark

    Doc Mark United States Subscriber

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    @Marc,

    Sadly, no word as of yet. I know that Drew is super busy, most of the time, but I'll call him once more, and hopefully, that won't be too pushy or intrusive. I do note, however, that his Cascade Designs email address is no longer working. So, MSR either changed their system, or, it's quite possible that he no longer works for them in the stove designing area. That would really be a sad day, indeed, as he's a great guy, and very honest. I'll let you know when and if I hear back from him. Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
     
  11. Marc

    Marc United States Subscriber

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    @Doc Mark Thank you sir, greatly appreciated. I hope all is well with your friend.
     
  12. theyellowdog New Zealand

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    @rucksack has some knowledge about Bulin and the stoves they manufacture.