Preheating a multi-fuel stove differently?

Hello again,

I've been watching several videos to see multi-fuel stoves in action, like the Nova, Nova+, Omnifuel, Omnilite, Dragonfly, etc and remark that some people seem to preheat them with Meths rather than following the usual routine of opening a flow of fuel from the bottle and lighting that.

Maybe a silly question, if I am missing something, but what are the good and bad points (if any) to doing this? Or is it just another method that some folks use?

Thank you again,

Mark

 

Using meths is cleaner. It won't get your burner all sooty.

 

Sounds like a good thing to do, then. I'll try it out later to see.

Mark

 

If using other than white gas, preheating with meths makes it is a lot easier to get the fuel to vaporize, and then light. White gas will easily light and preheat the stove without added meths.
Kerosene for example is not lit so easily as a puddle in the spirit cup. (Which brings up the point why they are called spirit cups, the preheating with spirits/meths). A wick is needed to give it enough air to light. Now, that said, a good wick will make the use of meths only a convenience.
An example will be to pour some kerosene in a small bowl and try to light it. Then put a wick in the bowl with the kerosene and you will be able to light the kerosene quite easily.
Now, about clean .... The kerosene will smoke... A Lot.
Now we are back at why we use meths.

Oh, you are in the UK, so substitute white gas for what ever you use there, like Aspen, I think. (Aspen 4?)

Ken in NC

 

Downside is you've to carry a priming alcohol bottle with you. No big deal because it doesn't need to be much.

 

Thank you all.

I can't believe that I've never noticed or read this before and then spotted it in a couple of videos this evening!

I have a load of little Nalgene bottles so I'll get some Meths into one of them and try it out. You're right, of course, everything around the burner cup area is black with soot and dirt but I never imagined using Meths to help keep that down.

Ken, we can get white gas here (it's all Coleman Fuel, if I remember right) but it's rare so means a day out driving to the city for me and then I don't like the price either! I use Panel Wipe mostly but got a very nice email back from Aspen a couple of weeks about a stockist only ten/fifteen minutes away. I have a 5L jar of their Aspen 4 Petrol here now.

Mark

 

What ever works best for you. Alcohol is cleaner, Petroleum is dirty/sooty; packing alcohol is leaky: Hand sanitizer serves a dual purpose, clean hands and a fire starter. 9 volt battery and some steel wool. What ever floats your boat.

 

one potential problem is meths flame is near invisible in day light, i like to prime with meths it is clean and any spillage will evaporate not leaving any residue,
also safer imo, i do not like the fireball effect you can get with white gas and i like the smell reminds me of model steam engine i had as a sprog

may be wrong but i think temperature of flame is lower too so safer then as much as any open flame can be considered safe
completely hopeless as a fuel itself though - 12 minute boil time? stuff that.

 

Rickybob, A Trangia stove can get a liter of cold water to a boil in less than 12 minutes (at sea level) but the issue isn't really speed. If you are using a camping stove, why not just relax and let nature take its course? What difference is there between 8 minutes and 12 minutes in the span of a life time? And consider that it has no moving parts, no routine maintenance and is reliable as the sunrise.

 

Also consider that Trangias are bulky and boring. What fun is something that requires no fiddling?

Ben

 

Morning, All,

I still use Coleman Fuel, now and then, to prime my stoves. However, Meths IS much cleaner, and I actually prefer it to CF, most of the time. Once you get into the habit of priming with Meths, I'm pretty sure you won't go back to CF!

As to the "power" in Meths, at least part of that depends on the stove, and the cook pots. Yes, yes.... I know that Meths inherently is less powerful than CF, Kerosene, Av gas, and other such fuels. BUT, in certain stoves, it does far better than a 12 minute boil! Here are a few examples:

- In my Optimus 199, setup for Meths, I can get a much faster boil time, if I think I need that, by using the proper jet, and air restrictor. I once penned some comments on the different Meths restrictors that are out there, and one, and only one, works to help the 199, and other such stoves, be their best! That most excellent restrictor is what came, stock, on the original Homestrand Mariner stoves, which used the "best of class" (IMHO) SVEA M1915 burner. When setup for Meths, with the "S" jet (for "Spirits"), the M1915 is an excellent performer, and can go better than 12 minutes for boiling a quart of water. I took several of those SVEA restrictors, and after trying them in my 111T's, and 199's, found that the outperform all other restrictors I've yet found, including the ones that can stock with those stoves, from Optimus!!! If you are interested, you can read what I original posted about Meths restrictors, here:

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/regarding-air-restrictors-in-the-199-et-al.23682/#post-241034

- Another stove that does much better than a regular Trangia, on Meths, is the fantastic Optimus 81 Trapper! When I got my first one of these, I wasn't too impressed, other than it IS very easy to get a nice simmer going with it. But, as I continued to use the stove, I noted that the pots began to develop a nice, hard, brownish-colored patina on their bottoms. And, as this patina continued to deepen in color, the boiling times decreased quite a bit!! I stopped trying to scrub it off (I might be slow, but am not "totally" stupid!! ), and today that original pot set is the only one I use in my Trapper stoves, even though I have three of the 81's, and four pot sets!!! Excellent performance with Meths, and when oriented properly, just like a Trangia, that performance is further enhanced.

- And, last, and most certainly not least, there is my White Box Pop Can stove. I long ago found that, if I added that to any Trangia I wanted to get to boil water faster, it worked perfectly to do just that!! It weighs next to nothing, fits on top of the opening in the bottom half of the Trangia windscreen, where the regular Trangia burner resides, and boils up a pot of water in no time flat, burning itself out, as designed! I then, quickly swap that burner for a regular Trangia burner, fire it up, slide the simmering plate over to a bit less than a "quarter moon" slit, and another VOILA, I can simmer for more than an hour, with no problem at all!! This is an excellent combo, for those times with you DO need a quick boil, followed by some good, long simmering of a cooking pot of stew!!! Here is what that combination looks like in action. First, the quick boil, followed by the long simmer, after swapping burners:





One final comment, just as Sparky so wisely counseled, most of the time, why not just let the Trangia, or other Meths stove, do what it was meant to do, and in whatever time it takes to do it? Fire up your Meths stove, put on the kettle, pot, or pan, go setup your tent, and other camp implements, get your sleeping bag fluffed out, and pack stowed, and guess what? Your water is boiling nicely, and did so whilst you were "otherwise engaged", and busy in camp!!! There is something very nice, and relaxing about that, for those times when you can be leisurely in your camping chores, and times!!

So, for a faster boil, use the proper, darkened pots; and/or, use a proper stove, WITH the restrictor I mentioned; or use the Pop Can/Trangia combination, which, working together, will get you what you seek.

I hope this helps a tad, as it works wonderfully for me!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

last winter Optimus 81 Trapoper in strong wind boiled 1 liter of cold (3 centigrade) water in a bit less then 6 minutes. I can't be more precise as I was not holding a chronometer, but fighting to put on my tent, but I remember that when I lit it it was few seconds after 5 oclock, and when I saw the water out boiling from the pan, I looked to my watch as I was surprised for it boiling so fast (normally 8 or 9 minute)It was 6 past 5.

 

I use Methanol without any additives, I lived in the UK and I think Meths had some stuff added to it to make it undrinkable. Pretty much like Denatured Alcohol is here in the States. Luckily you can buy pure methanol as the Yellow bottle of HEET in automotive stores here. It burns with zero soot and its not expensive. Best stuff for alcohol stoves as well.

Just a sidenote to all this. If you want to preheat with kerosene I found a bit of a trick. Get a copper tube that you can fit inside the mouth of the tank on your stove. You don't need it to be that small as you could just dump fuel out onto the wick if it's too big. Inside that tube fit a kerosene wick of whatever size you can get to fit in snugly. The tube has to be several inches long. Make sure you fit a cap on the other end. I've used this before because you can light it with a ferro spark rod. Just wet the wick with kerosene. Then you can light it with a spark or a lighter and let it sit under or in your burner to preheat it. It's not practical, and I only figured it out because I was bored and wanted to see if I could light my Hiker with only needing one fuel (kerosene) and a ferro rod. I don't use this method as I carry a methanol bottle, but yes, weird though it is it works.

 

My old Punker alcohol stove heated 1.5 L of water from 60F (16C) to 185F (85C), which is my French press coffee temperature, in 6 min 14 sec at an outside temperature of 70F (21C). That is faster than my Optimus 111B could do. True, it's not a backpacking stove, but it shows what can be done with the fuel.

 

My dragonfly has always been primed with coleman fuel but it burns so hot that even if it was sooty before it was running once its finished with and cooled down you can wipe a finger anywher on it and it will come away clean

 

The main asset of meths is that it will combust at quite low temperatures, primus type stoves can be started using it's own fuel, but outside in the" bush" it's easier to get an instantaneous hot flame with meths ,and as said previously it's down side is you cannot see the flame in bright daylight and it's another container to carry.
Petrol or white type fuel stoves just use their own fuel which will also combust at lower temps

 

The invisible flame issue is easily solved: just add 1% of salty water to the alcohol, and it will burn with a bright yell-orange flame. Other salt, instead of table salt, will give different flame color, but sodium yellow is the brightest.

 

Good idea! I'm going to give that a try.

Ben

 

I'd be very careful on that one. Sounds like an invitation for tin worm if you ask me unless you keep it in a plastic bottle. Meths is hygroscopic enough without adding salt into the mix.
Also I'd expect to be pricking jet / cleaning the bottom of the burner more regularly, the salt will come out of solution as the meths evaporates and deposit itself anywhere that it can.
Regards
John

 

Thanks John,
I had heard of adding salt to make the burn more visible, but I had not tried it.