all, Re the reference I made above: "...globe lid timeline: I'm tempted to describe as mid 20s to NLT 1932 (or c1924 possibly earlier -to- NLT 1932)". Having reconsidered (if to-date it's accurate, it should be) I am as comfortable with a simpler globe lid in use: "pre1924 to NLT1932". In future that range can be updated... oh wait, in future this range can be back dated (fwiw I think it will be back dated). Narrowing year range of when internal NRV use began with Optimus 2 pinters will work in-conjunction with the above as "some of the factors" to "age" old Optimus stoves or to better place them within year ranges. thx omc
@OMC @igh371 @Spiritburner it is only "fist step" in ivestigation "W przemyśle maszynowym utworzono w 1932 r. Polsko-Szwedzką Spółkę Akcyjną „Optimus”, reprezentującą firmę macierzystą AB „Optimus” ze Sztokholmu i specjalizującą się w produkcji szerokiego asortymentu kuchenek." 1932 - they made - Polsko-Szwedzka Spółka Akcyjna „Optimus", Warszawa. Fabryka wyrobów żelaznych.
not in Warsaw yet... mean - other factory OPTIMUS in Free City Danzig Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik AG wytwórnia wyrobów metalowych Oliwa, Pommersche Chaussee, potem jako Hauptstraße 339 (al. Grunwaldzka) 1923–1934 1923–1928 GmbH (spółka z o.o.) 1928–1934 AG (spółka akcyjna) later Danziger Metallwarenfabrik AG 1934–1938 1934–1938 AG (spółka akcyjna) (from other subject possibly "SUPREMUS" brand - but no other proof)
This latest development better connects Supremus and I think many can agree that once a complete brass stove assembly line is in production, if it stalls for any reason, it is highly likely that the same line will restart making that brass stove and using a different name is certainly plausible. That said, a point of clarification, and no hurry. "Made in Sweden" trademarked "Optimus" stoves, made by Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik AG actually being made in Poland...??? This for me, is especially noteworthy and can expect respectful skepticism in want of reliable sources / links to support this. Very interesting, no hurry. thx omc
As usual - we know nothing... "Warsaw" - in 32 - not produced stoves in unknown year - "Warsaw" was closed - i think 37 or 39 not war reasons "Danzig" - Oliwa - working 1928–1934 I cant uderstand - meaning thats q. ------------- Danzig - Oliwa - was abroad Poland and Germany was in Free Danzig City area ------------ We see - Optimus expansion to South We know South existing endemic (big and exclusive) productions - ----------- reliable sources - of what? Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik AG Polsko-Szwedzka Spółka Akcyjna „Optimus"
I am unaware of stoves marked with: the "Optimus" name and "made in Sweden" that were made outside of Sweden. Many comments earlier in this post you suggest (my impression) that "Optimus" branded stoves were made outside of Sweden. This I continue to question and is very interesting. That any better? If production of any "Optimus" stove made outside of Sweden is known, a source / link to this information is wanted. thx omc
At what date - Do You Know - OPTIMUS - ORIGINAL? before - that fact - THAT(O-O) not existed? At what Source - You have explanation of - endemic - Existing Here and Not There? ----- What similar (other product) situations could be attached? Why OPTIMUS - ORIGINAL - is connected ONLY with simple constructions - but in THATS time - was popular Varia ----------------------------- About What i am asking... Answers are out of typical- or WELL KNOWN - sources. WELL KNOWN - for OPTIMUS history describers...
re "At what Source - You have explanation of - endemic - Existing Here and Not There?" 2 part answer A. why / when I do not know. B. If it is stamped "Optimus" and "made in Sweden", I hesitate to question those 2. Explanation, it STILL can be made in Sweden and very large shipment(s) of these stoves shipped to satisfy large need in Poland. You turn this on me, prove it is Sweden, fair enough, but it is stalemate ... may become cold case file. My interest remains, if/when you find info / links to support "Optimus" branded stoves were made outside of Sweden", this is of interest. If it can be found in Poland you are best man to find it . late, happy easter thx omc
Thanks To You too ----------- How many - MADE IN SWEDEN - never been in S? Sweden & Varsovie and GLOBUS and maybe many... ------------- I tell You WHY: because - thats things was "prymus" or "szwedzka kuchenka" - simply "szwedka" it doesnt matter - is "MADE IN SWEDEN" - real - true "MADE IN SWEDEN" - sign - is attached to idea of product. But - OPTIMUS-ORIGINAL - must have "his own" reason. Reasons connected with area where existed.
back to subject... Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik AG 1923–1934 1934-1939 „Polsko - Szwedzka Spółka Akcyjna „Optimus". 15.06.1939 Do rejestru handlowego wpisano: dnia 15 czerwca: 8439. „Polsko - Szwedzka Spółka Akcyjna „Optimus". Spółka została wykreślona wskutek zlikwidowania. END of Warsaw OPTIMUS ---------------- at margins - Jan 1933 - A H came to be ruler of Germany
@gieorgijewski and @OMC Very interesting thread. By chance I may have found some pieces of the puzzle to make the picture a bit more clear. I was going through some old financial reporting of Optimus. After WW1, business boomed but this also drove costs of labor and raw materials and the value of the Swedish Krona. Also, the booming sales from the Optimus factory right after the war was higher than consumer sell-through around the world, so by the early 1920's there was a backlash and drop in turnover due to high inventories with distributors and dealers. Also, the Swedish cost situation was a disadvantage. So in 1922 Optimus opened a small factory in Danzig (a free state after WW1). From a financial report covering 1922: "In order to meet competition from countries with weak currencies the company has set up a subsidiary in Danzig, where a factory is being constructed, with the intention of launching production this spring (i.e. 1923)." Name of the company: Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik "Optimus" A/G In reality, this factory was a joint venture with local investors or businesses. Possibly because of regulatory issues, but it was probably also a way to share the financial risk. In the next report, covering 1923, it is stated that "...the Company has increased it's interest in the Danzig factory significantly, which now in union with some of Germany's leading finance- and industrial corporations is developing in a most satisfactory way." I have no information saying that other brands were manufactured in this factory in parallell to Optimus, but with shared ownership this could very well have been the case. Also, I cannot conclude if parts or semi assemblies were shipped from the Swedish factory to Danzig although it would make sense in the case of volume sensitive components and/or components that require significant investments in machines/tooling. Next year report is indicating a change in the ownership structure of the subsidiary in Danzig, but there is nothing to reveal what this meant in reality with respect to products and brands. During 1929 it seems there is a name change of the company to: "Danziger Metallwarenwerk A/G". Also the number of shares owned by Optimus is increased. In the balance sheet of 1932, there is also a Polish subsidiary listed: "Polsko-Szwedzka Spólka Akcyjna 'Optimus', Warszawa". Then, for some reason there are indications that the Danzig operation and the Polish subsidiary is making significant losses during the early 1930's. The values of both companies are written down completely to Swedish Krona 1.- each in the balance sheet as per end 1933. Also, the CEO of Optimus Mr. Gilbert Otterström is fired due to disagreement with the board of directors on how to manage foreign subsidiaries. The financial blow to write the operations down and cover their losses was probably significant. The following years, nothing is mentioned about the operations in Gdansk and Poland. But in the balance sheet of 1938, the number of shares owned in Danziger Metallwarenwerk A/G is reduced from 6000 shares to 1 share. No other information. In the balance sheet of 1941 (and onwards), the subsidiaries are no longer listed individually. Probably they fall under a post consisting of "Various stocks and shares" which seems to consist of written down ventures and subsidiaries. To make a long story short, there seems to have been activities and production in the Danzig factory from spring 1923 at least until 1932-33 or so. Possibly also after that, but I doubt it. Following Adolf Hitler's seize of power in Germany 1933, local Nazis took control over Danzig the same year. When the war broke out in 1939, Danzig ceased to exist as a free state.
Gieorgi, You spent many hours relentlessly researching this I know. CONGRATS your working theory is really working now!!! to your credit is Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik AG 1923-34. @gieorgijewski , @Staffan Rönn , @igh371 I confess I was unaware of "Free City of Danzig" history (you three knew this). Danzig's **history is crucial as that unique status (post WW1) and exact timeline directly relates to an Optimus interest in full-scale stove production then and there. Amazing. Origin for "Optimus Original" stoves... may be, it sure fits, credit you three for connecting the dots so far . Gieorgi you have not "dismissed" but you have researched beyond what vexed me, the "made in Sweden". Credit Staffan but I lean way over towards your way of thinking now. I can not explain it but will note, Danzig production was directed/monitored by Optimus interest. This I expect included the brass sheet stamping processes. The "Made in Sweden" text was available and if Gieorgi is right, although not made in Sweden, absent was a "country" of origin [they were faced with "what do we put here?" on what they may consider [Swedish] "OPTIMUS" stoves? Made in Poland/Germany neither reflects Danzig then, was this maybe a factor? here we do see "made in Danzig" was an option, seems it was rarely used? **Danzig [shipping port, region] then, being a semi-autonomous city state link ). <--THAT fascinating post WW1 story is my something new learned today. This is great stuff. I know Gieorgi is smiling, if I review above I may be eating some crow and with that I'll leave you to it, busty day today. ATB, omc search tag cross refs.: for: Optimus Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik, is: … Schwedische Metallwarenfabrik Optimus A/G here too fwiw: Polsko-Szwedzka Spólka Akcyjna 'Optimus', Warszawa [but Warszawa? owner company location. or not another venture?]
@Staffan Rönn , @igh371 @OMC production/or import - Padlock and doorlock ---------------- "Free City of Danzig" was "back door" for Poland/ stove market/. Stove was cheaper then imported from Sweden. ---------------- For better perspective: - OPTIMUS ORIGINAL vs SUPREMUS i know "hundreds" vs few type No 1 vs No 1, No 0 --------- Staffan - could You check austrian episode of OPTIMUS? circa 1910-1916
To me too this was all very interesting. I was not aware of the Danzig factory until now. Optimus like other exporting companies were really exposed to the course of events of history with both WW1 and WW2, the Russian revolution, the great depression and all the consequences that followed in terms of trade regulations, scarcity of raw material, fluctuations in demand etc. All those external factors had a massive impact on business, both ups and downs. It must have been challenging to manage the companies through those times. @gieorgijewski I'm not sure what you mean by the Austrian episode - what does it refer to? Regarding production or import of padlocks and door locks - Optimus started producing padlocks in 1930 following an agreement with an American lock manufacturer. Do you mean that also pad locks were produced in Danzig?
Gentlemen, I did intend to "...leave you to it", oops. Please pardon me upon re-entry here, ha Re Staffan's "@ gieorgijewski I'm not sure what you mean by the Austrian episode - what does it refer to?" To assist with an answer: I could link to the VIENNA Phobus stove Gieorgi found on the web (#84 in a 20 page post) but several members find the pre-1930 "VIENNA" mystery very interesting indeed. BTW I join Gieorgi's 1910-1916 interest (which is pre-1930 ). I posted on-topic: "G.B.&R." and "VIENNA" stoves that discussion includes the background story Gieorgi refers to, linking his Vienna Phobus and links to 3 others VIENNA stoves. Of note a VIENNA Optimus 100 with excellent early input from Ross. Oh, here also is Gieorgi comment 84 on topic. thx omc FYI, we have adopted "discus" term for a type of stove for it's discus shape. DRIFT, another mystery: When did 1st discus tank go into production? Revolutionary "sexy" tank design: an internal NRV, curvy, strong and light weight (earliest models were still 2 pinters). Optimus 100 was very early, but I would guess, they copied the discus design. It will be a banner day if we ever nail down and credit the inventor of the discus tank. The discus tank surpassed all others, and was Optimus's longest production run of the "3 leggers".
Thanks @OMC and @gieorgijewski for clarification of the episode. I have no clue immediately, but will of course report if I come across any info. Intriguing indeed...
