"AMERICAN" Model 520 Stove Dated 1942 Exist?

Greetings all. This is my first visit and first post on this forum. Thanks in advance for your knowledge and assistance! I'm a WWII 10th Mountain Division historian and I'm working on researching for a book about the clothing and equipment of the 10th Mountain Division in WWII. Before I publish anything, I'm looking to confirm that the company, "American Gas Machine," marked "AMERICAN" on the Model 520 Stoves that they produced, DID NOT make a Model 520 stove in 1942. I have seen AMERICAN marked Model 520 stoves from 1941, 1943, 1944 and 1945. If you have ever seen one dated 1942, please let me know.

**NOTE** I already know COLEMAN made a Model 520 dated 1942 and marked "COLEMAN." However, over several decades of looking, I've never seen an AMERICAN dated 1942. Thank you so much!

 

Yes,
I have one dated 1942
I sent a PM with other info.

 

Please post a picture of the marking please! Thank you so much.

 

@konabill
It matters not, to me, if you open post image or not.
That is cool and good to know you have one. I don't think there is one posted yet. This is my something new learned today.
I thank you, while I'm here, for your many related enlightening contributions (some like this one, rare tidbits).


@David R Witte
>>> edit DOH ! I missed the obvious. Accuracy is important here as it would be with you? , a soon to be published historian.
You do not want to refer to AGM's mil-spec offering as a (Coleman) model No. 520. AGMs are not 520s, just saying. <<<

welcome.
re your "... over several decades of looking, "
so you know, one rare tidbit can take years to discover/uncover/decipher.

edit again, sorry:
over several decades of looking,
with
This is my first visit and first post on this forum.
together those 2 ^^^ seem near unbelievable (as CCS does and has always prominently popped up in google search results) .

AFTER konabill has engaged you privately?
there is
"Please post a picture of the marking please!"
[i presume the exclamation reflects mutual excitement vs demanding]
-------------------------------------------

I can't recall a connection
mil-spec M1941 -to- WWII 10th Mountain Division

You are preparing to be published, that adds a wrinkle
otherwise
I'm sure I speak for the MANY interested in military stoves...

we would appreciate if you could share some of your findings , please !
re stoves used by
WWII 10th Mountain Division.

The topic is always popular as it has been discussed on this site quite a bit over several decades.
I'll try to remember to engage you with your expertise in future discussions.
If you find (or found) more useful content here you are also sure to note the fine print on the home page.
thx

 

IF AGMs are not Model 520s, what is their proper name/model? Do you know of any history behind how they obtained a contract to make mil-spec stoves, identical to the Coleman 520? Thanks!

 

re "IF AGMs are not Model 520s..."

oh boy.
AGM does not make a model No. 520, Coleman does.

You present very simple questions that have simple answers.
You might want to double check your research after that decades of looking, I'm sure you already have such basic details.

AGM and others do not make stoves "identical to Coleman"
These are "mil-spec" stoves. Another most basic detail.

Development of 10th mountain stove and cook set gets far more complicated, in-depth discussions delve way deeper into details, far beyond these basics.

 

Thanks konabill for your responses. I appreciate your help.

 

The Coleman model 520 is what the military designated M-1941. The M-1941 was also produced (second sourced) for the military by other manufacturers, including AGM and SMP. This was done so that larger numbers of them could be produced — a common practice in wartime.

The stove usually associated with 10th Mountain Division was a different (and significantly lighter-weight) beast, designed by Bestor Robinson (who designed a lot of 10th Mountain Division gear), and designated by the military as M-1942. Memory fails at the moment (it’s late, and my M-1942s are unmarked), but I believe that these stoves were made by Aladdin.

To repeat, this is a completely different stove than the M-1941/Coleman 520.

If you use the excellent search engine on this site, you will find a lot of information (including pictures) on both the M-1941 and M-1942 stoves.

….Arch

 

Arch,

Thank you for the information.

State Machine Products (SMP) made the M-1941 in WWII? I’ve only seen SMP stoves marked US from the 1980s.

Yes, very familiar with the M-1942 and M-1942-MOD stoves made by Aladdin, Coleman an PW. Bestor Robinson’s patent for the stove is online.

Still looking for anyone with a M-1941 AGM stove dated 1942.

Thanks!
David

 

Arch, I don't think SMP was around during WWII. I've only seen M1941s by Coleman and AGM. M1942s by Coleman, Aladdin, Prentiss-Wabers.

 

Thanks Cottage Hill Bill. I didn't think SMP made the M-1941. They may have begun production for the military beginning with the M-1950.

 

True. That’s what happens when I opine from memory late at night.

My larger point is true, though. Companies other than Coleman were second sources for the M-1941 during WW2. I.e. they were permitted (ordered, in fact) to produce Coleman’s design.

As I said, the M-1942 was produced especially for the 10th Mountain Division. I’ve never seen any indications that the 10th ever had the M-1941. (I’m not saying they didn’t, and I would be very interested in evidence they did.) @David R Witte Do you have evidence of this? If so, please share it with us.

Likewise, I haven’t seen evidence of other units having the M-1942 during the war. (After the war, a number of US and NATO units had this stove.) I’ve heard assertions that US Airborne divisions had M-1942s, but I’ve not encountered that in veteran’s accounts, and the only photo I’ve seen showed an 82nd Airborne Sergeant heating a meal on an M-1941.

It would be nice to fill in these gaps in stove history.

….Arch

 

This may be of interest re the M-1942 although 1949. At 59:37



Originally posted by @snwcmpr here

 

shortly - i know - example of m-1942 - possibly droped in spring of 1944 as support for underground army
other explanation - m-1942 was part of equipment "polish special agent" called "cichociemny" - the same time.
imo - above - is true in >80 %

 

Arch, I know that memory condition well.

I also agree with you perception of who had M1941 and M1942 stoves when. While I've seen several war-time pictures of M1941s in use I don't think I've ever seen one of a M1942. The Bestor Robinson - M1942 - 10th Mountain Div. thread is too strong to dispute, but the 10th didn't get into theater until '44 so if they got the first production runs it would have taken a while for the new stoves to filter through supply.

The notion of stoves being part of the supply to resistance fighters is interesting. Wish I had heard/thought of that a few years ago. I knew a fellow who had been seconded to the OSS because he was a first generation Czech and native speaker. He talked about sitting in a wagon on a crate of S&W revolvers he was delivering to the underground. He still had the one that somehow fell out of the crate in into his pocket.

 

Hello, I'm new to the forum (apparently following David Witte around ), but not new to collecting. Yes, there are quite a few photos with the 10th Mountain using the M-1941 albeit in a training-setting, probably at Camp Hale (see below). But what better evidence than from Coleman themselves!! I have not really seen any photos of 10th men using them in Italy..

 

Thank you!
Great photo, and I hadn’t seen that particular Coleman ad before.

….Arch

 

OMC,
I'm new to this forum, but cannot believe the way you made someone feel "welcome".
Just a thought: You should perhaps do a check yourself before calling someone out.
Capt Witte happens to be an authority on the 10th Mountain Division and is already an accomplished author.
He's just doing research on a piece of equipment that the 10th Mtn used in WW2 to add in his new book.
Instead of answering a simple question: "Does anyone know of an existing example of a 1942 dated M-1941 AGM stove?",
you proceed to try and completely shut someone down. Bravo!

As for your point of the CCS forum being so famous, I hadn't seen it before and just joined myself. And I (like David Witte) am an advanced militaria collector.
There's always something new to discover.
I noticed you didn't respond to my answer (backed with photos) to your "connection M-1941 with the 10th Mountain Division" query....
To me, that does not "add a wrinkle" as I didn't expect otherwise...

No disrespect intended because I don't know you. But I do believe in this case that you're completely missing the point of having a forum.
Just my two cents.

 

@Jeronimo, to the confusion of me from time to time, @OMC has a unique style when posting. The things that look like emphasis and decoration have meanings which you need to determine after wondering ("^^^" means "as you posted above") and line spacing makes sentences look like short phrases, but short phrases are also used.

In reading over this, I don't believe @OMC has intended any disrespect to @David R Witte . I see it as a detailed historiographer seeing elements of the question as underinformed, and trying to correct them. There were a few posts before the question was understood. The confusion over 520/M-1941 was seen as an M-1941 vs M-1942 confusion. Confusion is not uncommon in inter-human communication.

If you want to check my view, look at @OMC posting a follow up to dating elements on a thread last posted to by @OMC himself. He has the same style. The thread "1983, 1984 and 1985 Optimus domestics" is one example.

I for one appreciate your addition of evidence of training use of the M-1941 by the 10th Mountain Division.

 

@Jeronimo I agree with @Scrambler ‘s assessment. @OMC can be abrupt and hard to parse at times, but I don’t think he intended any disrespect.

Also, I am not a historian, but am interested in military stoves used in WW2. As such, I’m very interested in whatever gaps in my knowledge either you or @David R Witte can fill.

….Arch