Observation: Svea Duplex 814/815 last examples (with enameled pressed metal frame) are visible in 1934 french catalog (if dated correctly). Fortunately on this catalog we have photographic images of stoves so they must be period attendibile. On tank we still see the bubble font for this model, as on my example and the one featured by Bo Ryman in the gallery: Only difference is the filler cap, that on 1934 has been updated to new design. So the latest presence of the bubble font is on the Duplex of this 1934 catalog, while all other models where fully updated to newer Svea font and internal pump valve. Mine and Bo’s duplex are clearly a little older than the one on 1934 catalog, by looking at the filler cap. The presence of this Duplex on a 1934 is a little an oddity, but probably for this model the manufacturing of tanks didn’t change, apart the use of newer filler caps. Nicola
Observation regarding external pump valve. On 1934 French catalog we see this new type of air release screw present on this Svea Splendor 16 Svea No. 16 (I also have two of them): This Svea 16 has external pump valve, so it still was in use at least up to 1934. To note that by looking at my Svea 30 and to this 16 we understand that Atlantic Splendor branded Svea stoves for many years. Nicola
@presscall Hi John, we call bubble font the text style of early Svea stoves. I don’t know why “bubble”, probably for its chubby rounded shape. Nicola
@Nicola Francesco Elia The text style, not the shape of the tank, I see. Do you mean this graphic (as on my Svea 100)?
@presscall No, we mean the Svea No # Patent words on tank top. That evolved to a more simple style: Nicola
I read Nicola's passionate article about 3-pattern fonts. However, although approximate dating is possible, Svea stove's age discrimination method is still Nothing seems to be certain. It's a daunting story from the start, as the year engraved on the individual stoves in the Primus style is not shown. Font information/ Nicola's post I have nothing more to say. I just applaud you for doing your best. The final keyword in the topic is the tubular head. In the meantime, I tried to see the tubular head in all the pictures of the ccs, but not many tubular heads survived the 25 year catalog, so I looked at the 1908 catalog and the 1915 catalog. I think the picture of the 800/801 burner is the 801. Looking at the photos of Ian No.1 and Kerophile, What the hell is wrong with my 800 head? I thought about it. Existing head 800 is a cut surface / There is definitely a size difference, but it doesn't seem to be the same design. How do you see it?
@multi-cho I remember we have underlined those little differences between the two tubular roarers on one of your posts. The smaller for no 0 is not identical to the bigger for no 1. Is this what you mean? Nicola
Regarding the font discussion I have individuated this: From year 0 to 1924 (at least) two contemporary “bubble” fonts: 1: For 2 pints stoves 2: For 1 pint or smaller stoves Especially on the letter S the difference is visible. After 1924 we see the newer font. Nicola
@Nicola Francesco Elia yes... You are the one who arranged the letter patterns according to the size of the stove. It will definitely be helpful to many readers. The tubular head differs in its "folded/cut" design, as mentioned earlier. The catalog image is the same as the 801, so it has rounded ends.
I correct myself on this previous message. Thanks to @multi-cho observation here https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/max-sievert-patent-no-29975-1909.48927/ I have noticed that the tubular silent burner on the 1924 Italian catalog is numbered 812/813 that is part number for a next generation of burner. So the image used on this catalog is misleading. In fact tubular roarer is not present. After this we know that the tubular burners are present up to 1915 Svea brochure 120, while always on 1915 they disappear on Catalog 26, replaced by 812/813 silent burners. Is still valid my observation through the gallery entries exploration that the tubular burners are present only on stoves with the Russian text on tank side. Nicola
@multi-cho Regarding the tubular roarers consider that in catalogs they put the part numbers below 1 burner image, so that image will represent burner for no 0 and no 1 stoves. The same is for no 4 and 5 burners, 1 image represents the two burners size. Probably the catalogs use the image of no 1 burner to represent both small and big ones. Your “real” no 0 tubular roarer is the only evidence of how the no 0 burner is in reality. Nicola
I want to underline that in this post, with my thoughts, I am not willing to write down the “Svea Bible”. I am sharing with you what is part of my personal learning process about Svea stoves. I am sharing here my investigations that probably are obvious already for more expert members, but new for me. I just hope that my writing could be of any help for others. If not, for sure it is useful to improve my knowledge. Nicola
My thanks for all comments. Re my: "multi-cho's 8 & 9 might we, more easily, date those closer to c. 1908" and "his No. 9 has circular AKTIEBOL MAX SIEVERT on bottom" @multi-cho added image here, excellent, this confirms his 8 & 9 incl ATKIEBOL in circle text on bottom. Thank you. It would be good to add same image to the reference post in gallery Svea-8 all, Nicola, multi-cho, I can never keep up with gieorgi. He guides me beyond my comfort zone (with new/different views). At moment I can't keep up with Nicola (i'm still back in 1908)... it's all good. My work schedule is picking up. I have not abandoned this thread I have been reviewing some related details. Reason i post now, before too many repeats of my "tubular burner".. my mistake sorry, is to clarify the 1908 SVEA term is tube burner, / rörbrännare. ie tube burner 800 & 801 (roarer), tube burner 804 & 805 (silent). and i gotta run, carry on --------------------- EDIT: below, Nicola: "...inherited the “tubular” word from the gallery entries." Oh. alrighty then, and thank you
@OMC Thanks for pointing out the correct way to call the “tube burners”, this correction will be useful for future searches and reference. To be honest I inherited the “tubular” word from the gallery entries. So as you said, all good Nicola
I've been taking a back seat in this very fruitful discussion for a variety of reasons, not least trying to see how new perspectives challenge some of my own assumptions. Two things that are now very clear are that both the 'bubble writing' tank font and more of the external NRV range lasted for several years longer, after the end of WW1, than anyone had previously suspected. On the other hand, although there is now a genuine possibility, there is no answer so far as to whether the Svea silent tube burner lasted into the 1920s. Regarding tank bottom markings there are more open questions. Did those with 'Max Sievert Patent' in the tank base provenance mark date only from the earliest years of Sievert's marketing of the Svea stoves (ie 1908/9/10) or not? Also how do those considerable number of Scea stoves from a variety of dates with no tank base provenance mark at all fit into the picture? Can one still assume, and use as a working hypothesis, that those Svea stoves with the very distinctive large Russian market Cyrillic tank side panels must date from before 1920? What proportion of production, if any, before 1920 did not feature those side panels? And does the fact of the survival of so many Svea stoves without those side panels, but still with 'bubble font' inscriptions on the tops, help support the idea that the use of the 'bubble' font did continue until at least as late as 1924? @OMC @Nicola Francesco Elia @multi-cho
@igh371 Hi Ian, thanks for your post and new inputs to keep researching. As I said in a couple of posts here, I checked all the stoves with tube burners and all are found on stoves with Russian/Cyrillic side tank text, so if it’s true that tube burners were already updated and replaced in 1915 (catalog 26 doesn’t feature them anymore) we can say that Cyrillic text is mainly found on pre 1920 stoves. Nicola
just popped in, gotta run again but Nicola, i'm seeing tube burner (roarer) featured in 1915 catalog. tube burner (silent), i dunno. i gotta run. i'll catch up when i can
@OMC Yes you are correct, the tube roarer is featured for simplex and duplex on 1915 catalog 26. Nicola
Following on burners: burner 812 silent with fixed outer cap ring and removable top plate, featured in 1915 catalog 26 seems quite rare. At the moment it is recognizable only on this 115 Svea No:115 ( ex Mystery Max Sievert Stove), we can see the rests of the outer cap ring trimmed down: This stove has Cyrillic side text and so it can be dated starting from 1915 because the 812 burner. Nicola PS I have checked all the earliest examples of Svea Simplex and Duplex but none features the 812 burners or any tube burner. Most have more modern replacements as it is reasonable to expect on so old stoves.
