PHOEBUS - PHÖBUS Gerson, Boehm & Rosenthal

Additionally: I checked many stoves of different brands and none has such a wide 19mm riser, so seems a feature found on early Phöbus or Phoebus stoves only.

Nicola

 

Nicola: Something else I observed that seems to also be reflected on your Phoebus models (clearly they watched developments at Primus very closely). On Primus models the connection between filler hole and tank was changed from a level-to-the-tank seam up to 1924, to a raised seam from 1925. It appears that the riser tube and filler were revised in the same year (1925) by Primus. Phoebus seems to have been watching closely! This might narrow down the dates of your stoves. Peter

 

@abbahco1 Hi Peter, thanks for the additional information and detail to look at. Probably riser joint and filler joint were upgraded at the same time to reinforce the soldered joints that were subjects to torsion force.

Thanks,

Nicola

 

On the cheaper J:or and S:or models the riser joint remained unreinforced until 1930 (when the new "stepped" leg design was also introduced for all fixed-leg models) and the filler joint remained in its original state until the late 1940s. P

 

@gieorgijewski @OMC

A new unknown piece of the puzzle, an unnumbered Phoebus, 19 mm riser for what I can see, only one Phoebus text within two V3 logo without model number (I can’t see well if there is an opposite Phoebus text on tank as expected), still without Made in Austria, Mickey Mouse filler cap:




Unfortunately these are the only photos available.

I would put this after my Traveler Phöbus 1, probably contemporary to the first Traveler 1 by @multi-cho (without Made in Austria and Phöbus burner). Datable 1919 circa.

Now why it doesn’t have a number if no 1 already existed at GB&R time? Maybe an early silent version not yet numbered as 5?

The logos v2,5 vs v3 thing doesn’t affect dating, it’s just a detail I am observing and could be related to bun feet collapsible models only. So this stove enters in my time sequence in conjunction with @multi-cho traveler 1.

Nicola

 

Well, unless the above is an early Phoebus no 2 that could have the model number on tank side close to the pump, that in this case is not visible. From another stove:



Nicola

 

@gieorgijewski @multi-cho @OMC

Radler said:

Phoebus had always the same lighthouse logo with the letters "M J R", before, during and after the WWII and the name of the company was "Maschinenfabrik Josef Rosenthal".
The former name was "Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal, Wien". This name is known for the year 1901.

I have found a post card from Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal date stamped 1896, so we go 5 years back:




Nicola

 

Prague May 25 1920?



Nicola

 

Nicola

 

The above letter from Prague must be an old letter card, also because the oil trade ended in 1916 with MJR.

Nicola

 

Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal registered the trademark ALPHA in Italy in 1908.

As known, ALPHA was the name for alcohol stoves.



Nicola

 

hm...
wrong conclusions - or perspective
We are talking about 3 different realities - with many unknown aspects
Gerson Boehm & Rosenthal
management of the estate
creation JMR
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under GBR was a few different fitms
only PHOBUS/PHOEBUS came thru all 3

Prague oil factory - imo not belonged to Josef - was not connected with subject - and later has his own history

 

@gieorgijewski ok clear, I based my assumptions on Radler’s quote above, but that was my interpretation.

Thanks

 

in 1920 joined to FANTO
Fanto Benzin Aktiengesellschaft – Wikipedia
upper with mistake Wien-> Prague
here Perkeo by JMR
5 Datensätze

 

I found the Perkeo brand registered in Italy by MJR in 1924:



Nicola

 

@gieorgijewski but the first 1896 postcard that I uploaded can be used as dating reference for GB&R in relation to stoves production?

In any case before that we were dating GB&R 1901-1916, so in any case the company already existed in 1896.

Nicola

 

Yes - Company
possible alc stove was produced that time

 

@gieorgijewski exactly… and if alcohol stoves were already well marked GB&R, why not marking the first pressure stove (Phöbus patent) with GB&R? Another point for the non-Phöbus museum stove.

Nicola

 

shortly
1 Optimus/Phobus 100 design is copy of Primus
->Primus Patent 100 circa 1903-1907 was produced
-> Optimus as brand rising activity circa 1904
IMO "We" can say "Optimus/Phobus 100" was from 1905 +/- 1
upper gives - level of technology reached for 1905
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about "inproper ".." example"
in that context - "is any reason" for nonstandart riser mounting in fixed legs stove?...
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Phoebus No.645 MADE IN GERMANY：ホエーブス 645

 

the same example tank sign