Hi everyone, As I didn't find any source to purchase white gas locally and since shipping will not be allowed. I've decided to distill gasoline to obtain white gas as I've seen some you-tube links to that. I am aware of the hazardous conditions and will apply the maximum attention to fumes, vapors and fire hazards. Appreciate some information in regards to temperatures settings in case anyone has previously attempted to such application/experiment. What shall be the hotplate temperature, will white gas be obtained from the first drop or there is a certain range limited for white gas? Many thanks, Migwar
I’ve been impressed by Classic Pressure Lamps contributor MYN’s knowledge of fuel technology and suggest you contact him for his thoughts on what you propose. HERE I posted a report on his chemical separation of pump gasoline additives, leaving a lighter fraction of fuel. John
I have not tried distilling fuel, so I can't give much advice on the process. However, I know most places add alcohol to gasoline (in Belgium 5 to 10%, some other countries go up to 15%), so you'll have to carefully adjust temperatures to keep fractions separeted from each other. You can also first get the alcohol out by adding water (with food colouring agents added to make things more visible), shake well, leave to stand for an hour minimum and you'll clearly see the bottom layer (coloured water plus alcohol) and top layer (gasoline sans alco). Good luck with your experiment! Wim
It might be worth trying to get the 'purest' version of gasoline to start with. That might NOT be the 'best' gasoline! Could be the cheapest as it might have less additives in! Dunno. but less added means less to take out! Just a thought. Alan
@Migwar An interesting topic. Can you share something of what you learned? Are you going ahead with your project?
An interesting topic. I see this important for several reasons. An area that does not have white gas available. Or, an event of the magnitude that makes getting white gas difficult or impossible. Good to know more than I need to know, just in case.
Has anyone tried VM&P Naphtha from the painter's aisle at the hardware store? Used to thin out paint to extend drying time, things like that. The CAS # should tell the tale whether something is chemically suitable versus brand or trade names. I'd think that is readily available in Lenanon?
@Fettler I did try Naphtha from the painter's aisle, it worked for sometimes and for some other times it didn't. It seems inconsistent and that is why I am searching for white gas substitute from gasoline.
I think it was @Murph that always has had things to say about naphtha. I never used it. It might be the stove you used that was the problem ... ???
Let me say naphtha from painters shops could be a different naphtha here.Not sure if pure (they don't say naphtha on the bottle, but something similar in arabic language" زيت نفط" or "naphtha oil" by a non scientific translation). Multiple stoves failed, some are in good conditions. I am waiting to get a substitute to that product, so to see the results and conclude.
Please refer below to the conversation with MYN, after his very kind approval: Migwar: Hi MYN, I was directed to you from ccs stove. Particularly by Presscall. As I didn't find any source to purchase white gas locally in Lebanon and since shipping will not be allowed. I've decided to distill gasoline to obtain white gas as I've seen some you-tube links to that. I will be using a presto well welded to a coiled copper pipes inserted in a bucket of water for cooling. I am aware of the hazardous conditions and will apply the maximum attention to fumes, vapors and fire hazards. Appreciate some information in regards to temperatures settings. What shall be the hotplate temperature, will white gas be obtained from the first drop or there is a certain range limited for white gas? Many thanks, Migwar MYN: Hello Migwar, The actual fact is that modern gasolines(both regular and lower premium) are composed of petroleum fractions and additives that are significantly different from real white gas. Real white gas is basically straight-run light petroleum distillates, mostly low octane alkanes/paraffins. Modern gasoline contains a lot of reformates, some olefins, substatial aromatics and oxygenated hydrocarbons like MTBE, ETBE, TAME, etc to boost Octane ratings and improve engine emission standards. Typically, only less than 50% by volume are the desired alkanes, cycloalkanes or paraffins. To be honest, you cannot separate out the unwanted stuffs from gasoline by distillation alone. That's because all the unwanted stuffs(olefins, aromatics and oxygenated compounds) have basically similar boiling points as the desired alkanes/paraffins. What a lot YouTube guys are doing is basically separating the low boiling fractions from heavier ones as well as possibly removing certain dyes. The outcome won't be pure alkanes or paraffins. But anyway, if you decide try distillation, I'd suggest to use lower temperature settings below 100°C. That way, you'd get lighter distillates. There'd be less heavier fractions. The heavier fractions are not as thermally stable as the lighter fractions. They tend to decompose and undergo pyrolysis easily inside a heated generator. *** the only way to get nearly pure alkanes from gasoline is to do it using elaborate industrial equipment that performs catalytic hydrogenation and separation by means of both fraction distillation and passing the resultant liquid or vaporized gas through selected molecular sieves Migwar: Excuse my little experience and questions here. Based on the above. I will "Bain-marie" the container where the gasoline will be included, this way I will make sure the temperature will not exceed 100 Celcius. Would it work this way you think? In case yes, do you suggest that I throw away some of the first outcome too? To add, I need to use the white gas in stoves that are intended for gasoline/benzene and not for pressure lamps. Really appreciated with regards, Migwar MYN: Bain marie is a good idea. Something like a water jacketed setup. The most it'll get is the boiling temperature of water. You don't have to discard the first outcome. The working principles of those gasoline stoves are similar to those of pressure lamps. That's to say, the fuel needs to be preheated and vaporized using generators. This is where trouble with modern gasolines become apparent. Unlike white gas, light naphtha or Coleman/Camp fuel, the gasoline has a tendency to gum up and eventually coke up the generator and jet. That's because a large portion of the gasoline is composed of substances that are more chemically reactive and prone to thermal cracking. Once they are subjected to prolonged high temperatures as typical in generators/vaporizers, the undesired reactions or breakdown will ensue. If you download any MSDS of the specific gasoline you're working on, you'd find most of the constituents within it. It is certainly very different from the old straight-run gasolines or white gas. White gas, is largely light paraffinic or alkanes and is very stable in the heat. They don't react with many chemicals either. MYN: As a side note, there are different variants of Coleman Fuels. The UK version is almost entirely n-heptane. n-heptane has a boiling point of around 98.43°C.
@Migwar I’ll message my thanks to MYN myself over on CCS. Great advice. Let us know how your project goes. John
>>Has anyone tried VM&P Naphtha from the painter's aisle at the hardware store? @Fettler I have, but in a lantern. It was a can that was given to me so I went for it. I found that once running, it burned fine, but would not ignite unless I aimed my torch lighter right at the fuel to ignite it. Otherwise, it would just drain down and pool on the frame base. I suspect its main feature is that it's less volatile than regular naphtha. Unless you can find it real cheap, I wouldn't bother. Many (most?) Walmarts will let you buy Crown fuel online for under $8 per gallon, but for this deal, you must buy it online for store pickup. You will NOT get this price purchasing in store. Unfortunately, this does not help Migwar.
Yeah @Jim Lukowski it doesn't unfortunately, but thanks for the information. Thanks @snwcmpr and @presscall I will keep you posted here in regards to the progress
