Interesting that the last version of the 8R actually went away from the long handle with plastic knob to the same key as the 123 and no wrench tool. Obviously a cost saving measure. On the 8R teh key doesn't get hot as quickly as the key on the 123, but it does get hot. My other beef is that with a large pot or a windscreen like the Optimus 88/124 it is difficult to get the key in place while the stove is in use. It's just too hard to see it especially if the stove is at ground level.
This thread is a folly. The most entertaining thing this week. Buying an old stove no longer made and complaining about the details. Bringing up the McDonald's lawsuit as a comparison is a stretch. Like most things in life, it is the user that is the lowest common denominator. One cannot succeed in life living to that level of competence. Best not to buy old items of any kind. Use a butter knife instead of a steak knife. Cold brew coffee, iced tea, luncheon meat sandwich, pre-sliced cheese, etc.
Arch- Good points. In an ideal world, people intimidated with the priming procedure of petrol stoves like the Svea would stick to canister designs, and we would all be happier. But in reality, lots of folks who shouldn't be messing with them do, and end up injuring themselves - and it ends up in court. You know far more about litigation than I do, so I can't and shouldn't add anything along those lines to what you have already said. But we all have to live with the consequences of such accidents. As you know, most places out west have banned the use of alcohol stoves during fire season. I'm convinced that the reason for this ban is all the accidents and fires caused by some of the more ridiculous designs for homebuilt stoves - some of these things are just accidents waiting to happen. The result however is that nobody can use any alcohol stove, even the well thought out designs like the Trangia that have been used worldwide for decades. My big fear is that, sooner or later, somebody using a liquid gas stove is going to injure themselves and/or cause a massive forest fire and we will all be relegated to cannister models and self heating MREs. I'm just saying I think manufactures like Optimus would do well to tweak their designs a bit to try and minimize that possibility. -Paul
We already have people causing huge forest fires. An unwatched campfire started another fire a few days ago. What design features would you ask for?
OP here: I’ve been using my 8R for 50 years. I also have a 71, 96, 99, 111B, and 00. I prime using alcohol and a lab-type disposable dropper. I just found the Svea to be a little “different,” that’s all. No pending lawsuits (lol).
Snwcmpr- Three features: 1) A wick on the priming cup so you don't have excess gas/alc dribbling down the side of the stove. An eye dropper to dispense the right amount wouldn't hurt. 2) An insulated knob or a cover for the key so you can leave it in position to turn the stove down/off quickly without burning your fingers 3) Attach the chain to the windscreen to make it a tad easier easier to re-assemble. Biggest feature would be caution & common sense among campers using any form of fire in the woods. Unfortunately, I'm not in charge of that design. -Paul
1) I do not overfill the spirit dish. 2) I remove the key. 3) It doesn't matter. Feed the chain through the windscreen. Or not. It is obvious that we see things differently. I accept my responsibility to act responsibly. I do not expect others to change. Further on .. 1) I barely open the valve and use the low flame to continue heating up the stove. I usually bring patience with me. 2) I am confident that I can place the key in place when I need to.
We are dealing with highly flammable liquids here. There's no way to make it 100% safe. I don't see somebody successfully suing Optimus because they burned their thumb after leaving a metal key on a hot stove that was designed 100 years ago. It would be like shocking yourself on the battery of your Model-T. You going to sue Ford? Yes, the priming wick is a nice addition. So add one to your stove. If you find threading the key through the windscreen to be a hardship, then fix that to your liking. If you actually use outdoor equipment in the outdoors, you'll likely want to change a lot of things on your gear. That doesn't mean the manufacturer should change it for you. ....Arch Edit: And by the way, you can start a fire by mishandling a Trangia, or burn yourself because you can't see the flame in daylight.
I like that Svea (and other manufacturers) used to make a good little stove AND left it up to the user to figure a few things out according to their own preferences. It pisses me off that on new cars (less than ~20 years old in my case), and lots of other stuff, certain feature that I use to be able to control are automatic because someone decided that that is the best way to do it for most people.
I agree, wicks help. Without a wick I start with a small flame. A little more than a candle flame sometimes. That heats up the burner bell. The bell heats up the vaporizer. The vaporizer heats up the tank. It doesn't take long to build up pressure.
Like the parking brake used to be used as an emergency brake manually. I used the emergency brake to drive hills in San Francisco.
OK. I agree that the chances of somebody suing Optimus for a burned thumb - and succeeding - are slim. And if you want to attach the key chain to the windscreen (or not) that's your choice. Neither one of those things is going to possibly affect me one way or the other, so it's really up to the user to decide how they want to use the stove. You do you. But... The wick thing is another matter. It's in Optimus' - and our - best interest to include a removable wick and an eye dropper in their new stoves, and to offer it as an after-market addition for folks who don't want to make their own. Here's my logic. If you are a responsible user and can add a few drops of fuel to the primer cup without over filling it, then you can take it off and throw it out (or save it for winter time when you might need a double-prime). I think we all agree that petrol stoves are pretty safe devices if used properly - but they can also be dangerous in the wrong hands. Now I don't have statistics to back this up, but I will wager that most accidents with these devices occur while priming them. And - since we can't control who's using them - including a wick with the stove will reduce the number of accidents and fires that occur when priming. You can use or not, but at least it's there in place for the new user. So why is this important to you and me? Because the Park and Forest Services are super concerned about folks causing fires during the dry season, and have started banning certain types of stoves as a result. The forests are not healthy, so this is only going to get worse in the future. They have already banned alcohol stoves along with the ones that use twigs, and I would not be surprised if one day thay ban stoves that require priming as well. This may strike some (most?) as paranoia on my part, and I pray you are correct. But it's such a simple fix, why not do it if it will reduce the odds of this happening?
I for one don't know this and I'm 'out west'. I have read that California bans alcohol stoves, but then Cal bans a lot of things, including denatured alcohol itself (unless it's called 'stove fuel' which is, well, ironic, if alcohol stoves are banned....). I'd appreciate a citation to some support for this assertion (which you've made twice), because I have never heard it. You may be right, but I don't know it. Since I use a Trangia now and then, I should know.
OK, here's what I know: The restrictions are linked to either a Stage 1 or Stage 2 fire alert. Here's what it says (bold added): "Stove Fires: Under Stage I Fire Restrictions, are stoves allowed and if so what kind? Any stove fueled solely by liquid petroleum (i.e. gas, white gas fuel etc.) or liquid petroleum gas (LPG) (i.e. propane, etc.) fuel is OK under both Stage I and Stage II. Stoves fueled by wood that are not being used in a building or vehicle are prohibited under both Stage I and Stage II. ..." Here's the link to the document: https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd554472.pdf So you need to go to a map to see what's under Stage 1 or 2 alerts. I have also seen restrictions that specifically mention an "on/off valve". Anything with a valve is OK, anything without isn't. Kinda sucks, IMO, because an alcy stove with a lid can be turned off, which one would think is the important thing. I'll post those when I can find them again
Here's what the Forest Service says: For Stage 1 restrictions: "Portable stoves or fires that use gas, liquid fuel, etc., are allowed on all forest lands, provided they have a contained fuel source and an on/off switch. " (bold added) For Stage 2 restrictions: "Campfires are prohibited on all Humboldt-ToiyabeNational Forest lands, including developed recreation sites, campgrounds, and day use areas. This includes twig stoves commonly used by hikers, portable wood/charcoal fire pits, and stoves. Portable stoves with contained fuel sources (propane, jellied petroleum, etc.) and an on/off switch are allowed. Additionally, California campfire permits are required for the use of any portable stove, regardless of fire restriction level, in the state of California...." (bold added) Link: Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest - Alerts & Closures I guess the key is the phrase "contained fuel source" i.e., it's not going to leak burning fuel if you kick it over.
Also important to re-iterate is that this isn't a year-round ban, but just during fire season where you are under a stage 1 or 2 alert
The use of jellied alcohol oddly enough is allowed at least in Cleveland national Forest ,within restrictions . The use of any stove or lantern regardless of fuel type Gas liquid , propane , requires a California Campfire permit unless in an official camp ground . Applies on all state and federally controlled lands within California . Simple free online lesson and test , good for the year the test is taken , need to renew 1st of year . Just more red tape .
I shall continue my practice of 76 years and not camp in California! “0n-off” switch? Never seen one of those… I shall use my Trangia without fear. “Campfire permit”! What a place….
Ed- I think that's how a lawyer spells "valve". William - The jellied fuel makes sense in that it basically refers to Sterno, which is not going to pour all over the ground (or somebody) if it gets spilled.
