My third post on this. Getting my old Fire-Jet up and working, which I believe I purchased new in 1992, then moved on from after a couple years, having had it on a shelf ever since. Did some preliminary review and preparation, then yesterday I fired her up. Probably the first time in 31 years. Seems to work well. Quiet compared to my two Peak 1s. Photos uploaded here. Assorted questions and comments... 1. How to avoid soot under the burner? I followed instructions on starting, since I'd forgotten any prior routine for starting. After pressurizing, it said to open the valve, release a little fuel into the bottom of the stove, close the valve, then light the fuel. So I did. And it worked, but it burned too long on the fuel I'd released, so that the underside of the burner, etc, got all sooted up in just this trial run. So one lesson is to release less fuel initially, before starting, so that it takes less time to burn down there. But is there any other way to avoid that soot build up? When I pulled it off the shelf a few weeks ago I found it all sooty from way back. Maybe it's just part of using the stove? FWIW the fuel I have is Coleman Fuel that I estimate to be 30 years old, so unsure if old gas played a part here. 2. I ordered a set of cleaning needles on Amazon (designed for cleaning printer ink jets), which I then used on the jet nozzle. The 0.25mm needled went through easily, but the next size up, 0.30mm, did not fit through. From prior threads here it seemed like it should've gone through. But the stove burns well so I'm guessing that the 0.25mm "pricker" (as prior threads here term it) is the one I'll attach somehow to the case to replace the original, which is long lost. 3. I'm confused by the instructions, where they say to "Regularly clean the carburetor pipe with the supplied wire. I uploaded a photo highlighting that. There is a wire in the fuel pipe on the stove that can be seen both at the beginning, as well as under the stove when the screw is removed. I don't think I've ever touched it, as it seems pretty permanently stuck in the "carburetor tube". Do folks actually remove that wire? If I tried to move it I'd instinctively use a pliers, but I dunno... 4. I had ordered a copper washer I thought would fit in place of the original washer inside the screw underneath the stove. But when I dug out the original washer/ring, the shape of the screw and recess for the washer were different than I expected, so the measurements changed. Those copper washers don't fit and I cannot find them in the correct size, which is something like 15mm OD, 11 mm ID, and 2mm depth. So I currently have installed a nitrile rubber ring, which I expect not to be durable due to heat. I have a bag of them so no biggie, but another member her messaged me and offered to send me a lead washer, which I much appreciate. 5. Next I'll be looking for a case to hold the stove, bottle, pump, etc. Unable to find an [Outdoor Research Padded Cell #5] anywhere, as they are long discontinued. So any advice on a suitable alternative would be appreciated. Thanks Dan
Mine removes easily with thumb and forefinger. If yours doesn't, it may mean crud in the tube. If it doesn't respond to a firm tug, then sure, go ahead and try with pliers. You clean the wire with white gas and a cloth. These are fun stoves to use. They fold up very compactly and produce a hot flame. White gas (e.g. Coleman Fuel) only, though. I think these stoves would have been more successful had they not been released the same year that every other stove maker released a new model. ....Arch
Appreciate the response, Arch. I did try to remove w pliers and it doesn't budge. Dripped in some AeroKroil (sort of my preference to WD40) and it hasn't helped yet. And by pulling I bent the "carburetor tube" slightly. Pushed the tube back into proper position. So I'll have to brace the tube somehow to get better leverage.
Update and more questions... So after bracing the threaded end of the "carburetor tube" against a small box wrench in a vice, then pulling with a needle nose pliers, that wire came out. First time it's ever been out I think. Looks just darkened by heat from the part of the tube that loops up to the burner and back down to the bottom of the stove. Then I cleaned it with rag and white gas and it looks the same. Then back in and out of the tube using the pliers. No gunk or soot or anything in the tube it seems. So progress in my understanding this stove. Photos uploaded, first before cleaning, then after cleaning. So a question for Arch or anybody: Do you keep that wire inside the carburetor tube while the stove is in use? That's how it's been for me, obviously, and the stove seems to work o.k. But maybe it'll work better w/o that wire in there? With that wire out of the way, it was easier to insert the cleaning needle into the jet from the bottom. Again, the 0.25mm wire slipped in/out easily. The 0.3mm wire doesn't go in. So I'm choosing the 0.25 mm wire to go with the stove, and I jabbed it into the inside top of the stove case as I imagine it was supposed to be originally. Wondering if anybody can confirm that's how it was supposed to ride? Seems it'll easily fall out from there, but maybe not. Again this is from a set of cleaning needles designed for color printer ink jets, ordered from Amazon for $3.99. Finally a tangential question. While looking into the 0.6L Sigg fuel bottle to see how much fuel was in it, I noticed an irregularity in the bottom. Then looking outside at the bottom, there is a gash as pictured, that looks sort of scary. So I was thinking I'd replace the bottle. But then I noted the *exact* same thing in the bottom of my 0.3L Sigg bottle. Impossibly to accidentally gash two bottles in the exact same place. So then I was thinking that's maybe how they were new? But then in looking online by photo search I did not see another aluminum Sigg bottle with a bottom indentation like that. So scratching my head as to whether this is o.k or whether to replace both bottles? Still wondering how to avoid soot buildup under the burner that happens during the initial heating process from fuel in the bottom cup. Other than just starting with less fuel down there. And still hoping to get a lead washer for the bottom screw. For now the rubber ones will work but probably need replacing often. Thanks for reading and any thoughts... Dan
I never pre-heat any stove with anything other then alcohol based. All other fuels just makes a sooty mess. As for pricking the jet, if memory serves, it has a .28mm jet. That's how it is capable to burn both Coleman fuel and paraffin by just turning the lever. That explains why the .25 fits and the .30 doesn't. And I agree with Arch, the wire should be very easy to move, but needs to remain in the generator/carburator. The wire will help with heating the fuel, before it reaches the jet and will act as an anti-surge mechanism. Of the wire isn't in the tube, fuel will act like a sink and cool the tube down. That's why a Coleman stove has a brass spring inside their generators.
So if using white gas for this stove, I would need to carry a separate bottle of alcohol-based fuel for preheating? What sort of alcohol would I buy for that? Prior to your response I tried lighting the stove w/o the wire in it. Nada. Now it's all sooty again, and it didn't light. So I'm learning. Going to retry now with that wire in place.
Yes, the wire should be in the generator when the stove is in use. What @ajvuik said about the wire helping to pre-heat the fuel is spot on. Mine's wire is blackened at the burner end too. The cleaning needle is really easy to lose, as it's just loose in the bag or stuck through the fabric. Those "gashes" on the bottom of Sigg bottles are apparently normal, as at least one of my Sigg bottles has an identical one. Ethanol will give a cleaner prime. I have always primed my Fire-Jet with Coleman Fuel, for simplicity and to avoid carrying two fuels on a trip. Coleman fuel will soot some during priming, though most of it burns off during normal cooking. Any left over, I just wipe off. ....Arch
Update, more questions... Do the admins here prefer continuing updates on a prior thread? Or a new thread as a project progresses, even though there is a prior thread? For now I'll add to my prior thread. Onward with my Fire-Jet project. On advice from this thread, I've got denatured alcohol and successfully primed and started the stove w/o soot build-up. Progress. Thanks for advice on this. **So I am now looking for about a 100cc fuel bottle in order to take priming alcohol out into the sticks. Searching around the web all I'm coming up with are ketchup and soap dispensers. I'm envisioning something with a tip, squeezable so I can get the alcohol down in the bottom cup, but hopefully more rugged than a mustard dispenser. But much smaller than the usual fuel bottles. Any tips? Here is my new quandary. The Fire-Jet has the three wings that rotate outward, giving it stability when in use but allowing it to fold compactly. Elegant design. There are little dimples punched-out in the lower metal plate (see photos) of the stove, in order to catch little corresponding holes in the wings, to hold the wings in position when rotated outward for use. What I've noted recently is mine aren't holding the wings. The hinges seem fine, and the corresponding holes in the wings don't seem bent, so it's not like I can bend the any metal back to better catch the dimples. The design is to actually hold the wings slightly less than fully rotated outward. I've uploaded photos showing these details, hopefully. **So how can I tinker with the dimples in the metal, to get the wings to "snap" in place to hold solidly in position? The wings rotate too freely (even though hinges seem properly snug. They don't wobble) and tend to move inward or outward if the stove is moved to prime it our whatever. Some sort of crimping tool perhaps? Complicating matters is the awkwardness of the locations of the three dimples and corresponding holes. Hard to imagine any tool fitting in there. And the metal seems thick enough that just hand pressure with a pliers-like crimping tool would seem unlikely to successfully exaggerate the dimples. I have an idea to cut a 6" x 1" x 1/2" piece of steel that will fit through openings in the wings, drill and insert some sort of punch tip in the middle, then with the stove upside down use claps to draw it together with a second piece of steel above, while bracing the hinges, to perhaps enlarge the height/depth of the dimples. But I dunno... Finally I'm working on some sort of doodad to screw the detached fuel hose into, to allow it to be snapped to a ring to keep it from separating from the rest of the stove pieces when dissembled, and to keep debris from entering either end. Last photo shows what I came up with so far for just the one end. A bit heavy as is, but promising idea. Still tinkering.
^^^ @Spiritburner & @Christer Carlsson On matters of identification, repairs, and technical matters about the same stove, I prefer that it’s in one thread. But I defer to the Moderators… Cheers Tony
Yet another update... Since yesterday's comment, I figured out the problem with the wings not snapping into place snugly, or in fact not snapping in place at all, when rotated outward for using the stove. I was inspecting the hinges, which are short hollow rivets basically. I was trying to see if they were loose in any way, but I noticed, by holding the stove sideways up to the light, that the top hinges, which hold the wings to the burner plate, did not quite line up with the bottom hinges, which hold the wings to the bottom collector plate. Correspondingly, I could also see the wings were not quite directly vertical when swung into the open position. So basically the top burner plate and bottom collector plate were not quite rotationally aligned. So by hand I rotated the top and bottom plates into alignment. This was just a rotation of a mm or two. Very subtle. But once I let go, the two plates stayed in their new alignment. And voila'...the wings now snap almost snugly into position when rotated outward for use. Maybe there is something I could tighten with more investigation, to keep them aligned, but it's not worth it. It's easy enough to check the alignment with use and make sure they are aligned. Now I think that problem is solved, w/o any big effort. Next I found a padded case. Earlier threads on this page suggested the Outdoor Research "Padded Cell #5" as a nice case for all the components. Alas it's long out of production, and rarely found for sale used. I found this "S-Zone" padded camera case on Amazon for $17. It's a different configuration than the OR case, being shorter and taller, but, as can be seen in the photo I uploaded, it holds the stove, fuel bottle with pump, and sundry items in a reasonably compact manner. There is still room for the 100ml bottle I have on the way to hold alcohol for preheating the stove too. Finally on the 100ml squeeze bottle to hold alcohol for priming that I was hoping to find. I found a set on Amazon that should work. Actually 5 bottles for under $9. Should arrive tomorrow. So I'll have four extra if anybody else wants one. So I'm nearly done with this stove project, reviving my 1992 Fire-Jet into the land of the living. I think I understand it and it should be reliable and useful. Having had so much fun with it these past few days I think I'll actually use it on canoeing trips going forward, despite the annoyances of having to assemble/disassemble things with every use. Still monkeying around looking for some lighter way to block the ends of the fuel hose (when detached) and allow it to be tethered to the rest of the pieces. But you can see it fits nicely inside the top of the padded case, and I'm good for now. Still hoping to get a lead gasket for the lower screw. But lots of rubber o-rings in hand to replace as needed. Next I have an old Optimus 324, I think circa early 1980s, that I will start to revive next. That'll be a bigger project, but there are fabulous threads on this page, from years back, to guide me through it I believe.
Just now I fired up the Fire-Jet after replacing the lower O-ring. Using white gas as always. It began to do a sort of rhythmic "backfiring" or "coughing". When it does this flame comes out below the burner, in that little space just above the nozzle, briefly with each "cough". I turned it off, then relighted, and it did it again. Looks like I am unable to upload a video to this page, or I would be able to illustrate exactly what it did. Maybe there is a file hosting page I could upload it to, and then post the link? I don't currently use any file hosting pages, but used to have a Flickr account. I then shut it off, left it to cool down, disconnected the fuel hose, and released the air from the bottle, and made sure the slide gate was all the way in the "A" position. Later I put it all together again, reprimed with alcohol, and it lit up beautifully and did not resume that backfiring. It never ran so good, in the few weeks I've been tinkering with it. Just curious what was doing this? Is there a name for this phenomenon? Could it have to do with too much or too little pressure in the bottle? I have previously gone over this stove in detail, and the jet is properly open, etc. BTW yesterday I received, gratis, two lead o-rings and two viton o-rings, from another member of this page. That's pretty cool. Tight community here. Dan
O.K I uploaded the clip of the stove backfiring or coughing. Using white gas as always. Old Coleman Fuel, probably 30+ years old. Probably there is a better term for phenomenon? Recorded yesterday evening. Uploaded to youtube tonight, just so I can link it here. Never did that before. As I mentioned above, after this clip, I shut off the stove, then relighted it and it did the same. With each "cough" there is flame below the burner just above the jet nozzle, but you can hardly see that in the clip. Later after it cooled down, I dissembled everything, released pressure in the bottle, and made sure the slide gate was in the "A" position. Then I pumped it up again, reconnected, and it ran beautifully. Let me upload that clip too, again from last night. So I'm good. Just wanting to understand what caused that "coughing"
Looks to me like something non-flammable (or less volatile) in the fuel. Maybe water or alcohol? I saw a Primus 71 act very much like that after the owner decided to rinse the tank out with alcohol. Some of the "coughs" were big enough to blow the flame out. I just kept relighting until the wick had no more alcohol. Of course, the Firejet doesn't have a wick, but there could have been something in the cable, or maybe in the old Coleman fuel(?) I'd try running it through a few more cycles to see if the problem recurs. If it doesn't, take it on an overnight, with another stove as backup. Maybe also use fresh Coleman fuel, especially on a trip where you're depending on this stove. ....Arch
I agree with Arch. It looks like some contamination coused the stove to backfire, explaining the small flame by the jet. And the fact that it went away surely points to that direction.
I have still been putzing around with my Sigg Fire-Jet so I'll post another update in case anybody has an interest. It's been a number of weeks I've been tuning up this old stove, and more and more fun. The thing that vexed me the most over the past few weeks is the way the three vertical wings, that swing out when the stove is in use, would not stay in a fixed position. As per my earlier update, the stove has downward pressed dimples in the lower cup plate that are supposed to engage with corresponding holes in the hinge wings on the three rotating members. In theory these should hold them in a fixed position for using the stove. But in my case they didn't grab and hold even a little. I scratched my head for a solution, and to understand the essential reason the dimples and holes were not binding properly. And I considered a number of remedies. I came to understand that the essential failure was because the little hinge wings were warped enough that the holes were too far away from the dimples to engage them. Probably going to happen to every stove that gets used over a season or two. Mine has only been used about two years, probably 1992 & 1993, and had been in storage since. Twisting the top and bottom of the stove to bring them back into more ideal position would work briefly but then it all went back the way it was shortly after the twisting. I thought about forcing the dimples further out from the lower steel piece, but really they were already nicely formed and not the problem. I finally came up with the idea of pulling the hinge wings back up toward the dimples, and closer to their designed position, with a broad fender washer from below, held in place by a screw and nut through the hinge rivets. It took a little experimenting, but I've pulled it off. All stainless steel hardware. I ended up using M4 screws of 8mm length with a flanged pan head (to avoid having to use a washer under the head). 18mm OD fender washer with M6 ID chosen to fit right over the lower side of the hinge rivets. I ended up having to grind up the ID a tad to get the fender washers to fit over the hinge rivets in order to be flush with the hinge wings. Fender washers are 1.5mm thick on purpose, so they aren't tempted to warp over time like the hinge wings did. Then used a flanged nut, again to avoid having to use another washer below the fender washer. Of course the nut and bolt could not be fully torqued down because the hinges still have to pivot to open and close the vertical wings. I figured nylon-insert lock nuts would not hold as the nylon would melt from heat in this application. So I used red high temp thread locker gel to fix the nuts in the proper position on the screws. And it worked. All three vertical wings now stay in place when closed, and rotate with minimal effort into position when extended. And there is a satisfying "snap" when the holes in the hinge wings engage the dimples in the lower plate. Now they stay nicely in the proper position when extended. The thread-locker seems to be holding (I first let it cure for 24 hours), as I've rotated each vertical member open and closed many times in the past two days, having run the stove several times to see if heat would loosen the thread lock. I even cooked dinner today on the stove. Seems to be holding solid to this point and I think it will stay that way. I've uploaded photos of this setup. The cost is the weight of three 8mm screws, three fender washers, and three nuts, all stainless steel as I said. To me the weight is minimal and now the stove is a solid base for cook-wear when in use. You can faintly see the red thread-locker between the nuts and screws. ------------------------------------------------------------ Finally another observation and question. When I turn off the stove, inevitably the burner goes out as expected, but a small flame transfers down below the burner into that little space above the jet. It will keep burning there another 20 seconds if I don't blow it out. Not sure what this means? Not a problem to blow it out, and it goes out on its own anyway eventually. But I wonder if it's because of the fuel that is always left in the fuel hose? Matter of fact, every time I use the stove, then dissemble it, I end up dribbling out the fuel that remains in the fuel line. Wondering if there is a way to avoid this? Not that big a deal since it evaporates quickly and it's not much fuel, but it is a small waste and bit of gas smell while it evaporates. Final photo is just a pretty flame shot I took last week. I'd embed these photos into the text if I knew how. I guess the issue is what image hosting sites do you folks use for that? Thanks for any responses or insight. Dan
Your suspicion of residual fuel in the hose is correct. With the fuel valve way back at the tank, it's unavoidable, but not a problem. Later stoves from other makers added a second valve at the base of the burner. (e.g. MSR Firefly) This gives quicker flame adjustment and also has the effect that fuel in the line is prevented from going into the burner. Great job getting rid of the sloppiness in the hinged wings, by the way. ....Arch
Another update on my 1992 Sigg Fire-Jet project... Since I picked my Fire-Jet off the shelf in early September, for the first time in over 30 years, I've continued to putter around with it. As detailed above, I have learned quite a bit, and made some improvements. I have the stove working beautifully. One thing that bugged me was how I had always stored and carried the fuel hose. As per the first photo uploaded below, I had always looped it around and threaded it to itself, both to allow it to be secured so as to keep it handy and not lose it, but also to keep debris from getting into the hose. But what I noticed upon working with it again, is two things. One the hose is short enough and stiff enough that looping it to itself puts considerable pressure on the fittings at both ends. Second when stored in a loop, it develops coil memory and doesn't want to go straight for when in use. So I got the bug in my head to devise some means to keep the fuel hose secured and keep it free of debris, as is the case when stored in a loop, but to allow it to be stored and carried straight. Once I found a nice little case for all the stove parts that need sort of went away, because the hose fits decently in the mesh pocket and is almost straight that way. Still I had it in my head to create something that would allow the hose to be clipped to other gear, in case I don't use the case on trips into the wilds. So I fiddled around with some ideas. I first used some hardware of stainless steel, a half an anchor swivel, and I got a nice loop that way, to tie into. But that was *much* too heavy. So I looked around for a lighter solution. I found some aluminum swivel carabiners and ordered a box. These are inexpensive but high quality and designed for mountain climbing, so certainly robust enough for this low stress application. See the images I've uploaded. By separating each swivel carabiner into the two halves, I have two carabiner clips to work with. At first I still used stainless steel hardware to connect to the hose, but then got the idea of cutting what I need from aluminum bolts and spacers, using a tap and die set. The threads on the Sigg Fire-Jet fuel hose are M8-1.0, which is not very common, so cutting my own got me past that. Then I created a cap for the male (pump) end and a plug for the female (stove) end. So I end up with the ability to clip the hose to whatever loop, from either end, and have the loose end covered to keep debris out. So actually superfluous capacity already, just from using one swivel carabiner. That's how it worked out. These came out much nicer than I expected. Feather light too. Next I will work on an aluminum thumb bolt that will screw into the fuel hose port on the pump. I'll try to have a ruber O ring to keep it snug into the pump, like on the fuel hose itself. On the other end will be a figure 8 piece that creates a loop there. So I'll be able to clip the fuel hose, fuel bottle cap, and lighter all to the pump/bottle. That way even without a case the entire stove can be contained in just two pieces, the bottle/pump and the stove itself. I'll report back w photos once I have the bolt/loop perfected.
Here is the little thumb screw I made to go in the fuel hose port on the pump assembly. The impetus is the little eyelet near the head, through which I'm going to tie a loop of cord, in order to have an attachment point to clip the various and sundry items that I keep with the stove, particularly the fuel hose. The thumb screw and threaded spacers are aluminum. The figure eight eyelet is stainless steel and is repurposed from the tackle box where it is used in jig fishing. That little eyelet rotates freely on purpose. The aluminum spacers I have cut threads into and permanently attached in those positions. The O-ring fits in nicely between the two spacers and mimics the O-ring on the fuel hose. In this application it serves to firm up the bolt inside the pump housing so it doesn't unscrew. In the fuel hose I assume it prevents fuel leaking at that connection. Tomorrow I'll finish this and post photos of everything clipped together (as in carrying or storage configuration). I sort of envision using a rubber band to keep everything svelt up against the bottle.
