Had a simialr thing happen to me today! Check the nipple. If the pricker is not ture then you r jet will be over size. Take out and sharpen end with stone to a point will help. Had water in my fuel from being outside in the rain. Pour fuel into container and see if any small bubbles comes out of it after a while. Mine way just spitting bits of steam though every now and again. Just a maybe!!!
Prevents priming fuel - Meths - from leaking out of the priming cup, pooling in the base of the case and burning the paint work! I know, because I don't have the washer on my 111 and the fuel leaked out. Best of luck with the fettle Spudz
Morning, Omp, and Lads, I don't know if you've sent your stove yet, for me to check out, but if you have not yet sent it, I had an idea yesterday. I once had an old Volvo PV544, and when I first bought it, I found that it would sit and idle for hours, but if I tried to actually drive it, it would stall out in just minutes! What the.....???!!!! I tried everything that I could imagine, to get this car back in running condition, with no luck at all! Finally, almost in desperation, I took it to a real mechanic. He soon found the problem: the gas tank had a couple of paper towels down inside it!!! When the car was just idling, all was well. But, as soon as I tried to drive it, the fuel pump kicked in and sucked those rags into the fuel intake line!!! This, of course, stopped the flow of fuel, and thus the forward movement of the car!! Once the car had sat for a bit, the rags relaxed back out of the line, and the car would start once more, only to die again, if I tried to drive it!! Did you check out your fuel tank really, really well? If not, then you might just have something foreign down inside it, which is causing a problem with your 111B, not dissimilar to the one I experienced with my old Volvo!!! Something to consider, anyway! If you have already Posted your stove to me, that's the first thing I'm going to check, when it arrives. If you have not sent it, as of yet, then give that a peek, and see if it has merit. The last 111T that I bought, I found in Colorado, and for only $10! But, when I got it home, I found the fuel tank had been filled with tiny bits of soft wood!!!! The previous owner had obviously given this old stove to his kids, who promptly filled the fuel tank with, what else, "fuel"!!!! Though it took me a while, I eventually got all the wood, and residue out of that tank, and with a total rebuild, that stove had worked like brand new, ever since!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Evening, OMP, and All, Guess I was a little premature in my note to you, as your 111B stove arrived today, safe and sound!! It appears sound, on first glance, and it does hold pressure. I'll dig into it in the next couple of days, and let you know how things are looking. I feel certain that we can get this old guy back up and running for you, and that you will love owning and using it, when it's back in your hands!! Talk to you soon. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Morning, OMP, and All, Mark, did you remove your NRV (Non-return valve), when you were attempting to find out what was wrong with your stove? I took the NRV out, first thing this morning, and it does not appear to have it's lead gasket anymore. I have checked down inside the pump tube, but that gasket appears to be completely missing. That could easily account for your stove flaming out, as it's quickly running out of pressure, leaking at the valve. Also, what kind of grease did you use to lube your pump leather bucket? Looks like pretty heavy stuff. It's left a lot of nasty residue inside the pump body tube, and I've cleaned all that out. Right now, I have your leather pump bucket soaking in Extra Virgin Olive Oil, which is what I always use for such chores. I'll totally disassemble your stove in the next few days, but it's quite possible that your entire problems have to do with the apparently missing lead washer/gasket which should be under your NRV. More later...... Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Doc, Sorry for the delay, but I have not been able to monitor the forum for a few days. With regard to the NRV, I never removed it. In fact, I never thought to remove it. As far as the leather packing, I soaked it in Hoppe gun oil as had been suggested in one of Cliff Jacobson's books - apparently a bad idea. Thanks again for all of your work on the stove. Good luck.
Hello, Mark, Glad to hear from you. I've got some "mix and match" parts, one of which is the top part to the proper NRV, complete with it's lead gasket. Once I got yours apart, I also saw that the spring was a bit too short, and it might now have been exerting enough pressure on the rubber gasket. I checked it against two others, both of which were exactly the same bit longer than your spring. So, once I get it all back together, maybe later today, or tomorrow, I'll install a longer spring, and a new NRV gasket, too, then see if that turned out to be your problem. Fun! As to the Hoppe's gun oil, I've used that, too, with no problems at all. Maybe the stove's previous owner used some noxious stuff and that was the residue that I found in the pump tube. Hoppe's won't leave anything at all down there, as I've used it for years, with good results. Once I went to Extra Virgin Olive Oil, however, I stopped using gun oil, as OO works even better, and lasts longer. Hope to have some results for you soon. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hey, Mark, Tonight, I got the chance to dig into your stove, and finally found the problem! First, as mentioned, your NRV had a short spring in it, was missing it's lead gasket, and the rubber NRV gasket was heading towards getting harder. So, I changed out your entire NRV assembly for a brand new one, just for grins. Next, I checked the cleaning needle adjustment. It seemed OK, but I went ahead and reset it, anyway. Then, I filled the tank, primed the burner, and gave it a whirl. No luck. I had the same flame-out problems that you encountered. I gave it a second try, and this time took the flame ring and windscreen off, so I could watch the prime. AH-HA!!! It was then, that I saw what I believed was the problem. Your nipple (jet) was shooting it's priming fluid out at a very odd angle!!! This meant, to me, that your jet was bad!! So, I swapped it out with a known good jet, from one of my old 111B stoves, and guess what? Your 111B is now a screaming, mean flame machine!!!! 8) 8) 8) I let it burn for almost 30 minutes, and your stove now has a strong and very hot flame!!! It simmers very well, too, so I believe it's all ready for me to send it back to you. Before I do so, however, I will give it one more test fire, tomorrow, and if it performs as well as it did tonight, I'll box it up and send it back to you, all ready to do what it does best!!! Tonight's test was done in the snow, and in super cold. No matter, your stove shrugged off the cold, and burned with complete abandon!! Cool-dooders, Man!!! 8) 8) 8) Your stove should last you for a good long time, now, and it should give stellar performance, too. If I were you, I'd order a few new pump leathers and a few new fuel cap gaskets, just for grins. Your NRV, being new, will probably never need replacement. But, for the other things, it's always nice to have some spares on hand. Check the link on this site to A&H, and give them a call. They can send you the fuel cap gaskets, and the pump leathers. Or, send a note to our Stove Brother, Sefa, in Turkey, and buy some of his outstanding pump leathers!! They are even better than the original leathers, in my opinion!1 I'll let you know when your stove if on it's way back to you. Please let me know how much insurance you wish me to add to your package, and that's what I'll do. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark (better to be lucky, than good, anyday)!!! 8) 8) 8)
Cool-dooders? Hitting the Happy sauce a little early? That must be one of them Texas sayin's All hail Master Fettler Mark!!! Yeahhhh 8)
Three cheers for Doc Mark!!! After well over a year of sporadic attempts to fix the 111B on my part, Doc Mark does it in a day. =D> I am most appreciative of your expertise and willingness to assit an novice fettler. I look forward to many happy hours spent with a hot, roaring burner.
Morning, Mates, Thanks for all the kind words! It's better to be lucky, than good, anyday!!! 8) Last night, after I got OMP's 111B running hot enough to be a smelter, I got to thinking about the jet problem. Mark said he'd tried the jet from his 8R, which was running OK. Now, why would this jet work in his 8R, but not in his 111B? Do those stoves require a different jet? Hummmm..... So, I dug out my Optimus paperwork, and checked part numbers. Guess what? The Optimus jet for the 8R, 123R, 111, 199, and 99, is part #2509. For the 111B, it's a completely different jet, part #2510!!!! So THAT'S why Marks 8R jet did not work well with his 111B!!!! I tried several used jets that I had in my parts box, and every single one of them did the same "flame-out" trick as did Mark's 8R jet. It was only when I substituted an known good jet from one of my old 111B's that I had instant success!!! Now, Mark's stove burns hot, blue, and quite well! I also tried all the other jets in my own 111B, and guess what? Now mine doesn't work, and has the same flame-out problem!! Hey, it just verified what I already suspected: those jets are not meant to work with the 111B. I am going to try one last experiment, and see how that works. I still have a very few complete rebuild kits for the 111T, and other such stoves. I am going to try a brand new jet from one of those kits. I fully expect the stove to flame-out. Not to worry, however, as I know that, somewhere, I have two spare 111B jets and matching cleaning needles. Back in June of 1990, I found a wilderness outfitter in Santa Fe, New Mexico, that was cleaning house. From him, I bought a Phoebus 725, with can and spares ($25); a brand new Optimus 00 complete with it's original box, paperwork and prickers ($35); and an Optimus 22B, used, dirty, but in fine shape($30). The 22B came with some spare parts, too, which included the two brand new jets and cleaning needles!! So, now all I have to do is find them, and I know they are down in the Hobbit Hole, SOMEPLACE!! 8) Once I find them, I'll install one on my old 111B, and fully expect it will, once again, roar with it's full-voiced, smelter-hot flame!!!! \ =D> \ \ I checked the A&H webpage this morning, and they do not list a separate jet for the 111B. However, they do list a complete rebuild kit for the 111B, which is different than the kits for other 111 stoves. I believe my theory about the jets being different is correct. And, from my recent scant experience, I will crawl out on a narrow limb, saw in hand, and wager that, anyone who has had 111B stoves, from which they could only coax a weak flame, was using the improper jet!! Just a guess, but seems highly plausible, don't you think??!! All's well that ends well, and after one more test today, Mark's screaming 111B will be back on it's way to him. By the way, Mark, no charge, Lad!!! All in good fun, and all part of the sharing that goes on here at CCS!!! 8) 8) Someday, you can "repay" me by helping another Stovie fix his stove!! Right now, I'd settle for some photos of your 111B in action, once you get it back!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hey doc at one time i had a 8r that would not burn right just like yours i took a jet from a phoebus 725 it work great mite work in that 111b
Hey, Guys, I retested Mark's 111B this morning, and it is still a screaming heat machine!! Yeah!! The bad news is that I found the two jets I thought were 2510's, and they are not. With one installed in my own 111B, it works, but not well. Here's a shot of the two stoves, mine on the left, and Mark's on the right. And, another shot of Mark's, at full flame! What's not to like about this great stove??!!! A little cleaning and maybe some paint, and it's like brand new!! So, Mark, your 111B will be sent back to you tomorrow, and I'll look forward to reading your report, when you get it and fire it up for the first time. Your regulating spindle is still a little tight, but that will not change without a complete rebuild. Works just fine, the way it is, just a little tight. I'll seek out some 2510 jets, and when I find them, get my old 111B back to it's old self, in no time!! Until then, I have more than a few other ones to occupy my time, and keep me happy, so please don't worry about the donation of the jet!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hi' Optimus Jets for 111B's was/is 2510 (old stock number), and now the jets are marked "G" (for gasoline ) Anyway I use jet's marked "G" ( gasoline) - works perfect in my 111B's - and for my 111's I use the jets marked "M" multifuel. I haven't measured these jet's, but for my eyes in the big magnifying glass: old 2509 (kerosene) = new "M" (multifuel for Hiker 111C with Cobra burner) - 2510 (gasoline) = new "G" ( gasoline - - - - - - ) Phoebus 625 Jet?'s marked "E" are for kerosene, and "G" for gasoline Salar and Stove
Doc Doc Doc.....Doc Doc Thank you for being such a master fettler!! I am in awe of your infinite wisdom.... I have been fettling a 111b also and having the same problems described here. After cleaning out the brass screen I thought that I had it burning pretty good. No more flame outs. It was a little testy but I thought that was the nature of the beast. I purchased a overhaul kit from A&H when I started I was only needing the spindle and cleaner tip as mine was stripped out. I went ahead and changed the jet with the new one that arrived. There was two jets included with the kit both were in little plastic baggies....one was marked on the outside of the bag with ALC written in marker. The other had nothing on the bag but had a M or W stamped on the jet itself. I was not burning ALC so I used the latter of the two. When I saw pics of a 111B burning that you posted today I knew immediatly that something was still amiss. I promptly came home from work and tore in to it. I changed out the jet with the one that was marked ALC. I primed the cup, let almost burn out and cracked the valve. I took two quick steps back to reach for the fire extinquisher and realized that It was burning like it is supposed too!!!! I am very proud to have it in my inventory now!! It burns very well.. almost scary!!! Doc THANK YOU!! for your most excellent post's I am indebted to you!!
Hey, Spitbus, Congratulations on getting your 111B into "Cherry Red" shape!! Hey, you are welcome for any tips you may have picked up from this quarter! That's what I love about CCS. We all learn from each other, and we all teach each other, and sometimes we all just stumble down the road together, and find a "fix" by accident!!! 8) As you mentioned, a 111B that's being a "little testy", is not running as it should. Mine is in that state, right now, but with it's proper jet, should be back into "Cherry Red" shape, in no time!! And, I may have found another jet for it, too! As things happen, when a window closes, a door opens!! A Stove Mate has kindly offered to send me a 111B jet, AND, I may have found a source for some new ones. I'm going to check out the source, and want to see if what they "say" they have in stock, is exactly what I need. Unfortunately, this is not always the case, and when you order one thing, you get another thing, that's "close". In this case, "close" is not good enough!!! I'll keep you posted as to how things turn out. Again, glad you got your 111B doing what it does best!! It's an awesome stove, when running properly, and it will earn your trust very quickly! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Wow, the performance of the 111B is impressive to say the least!! I look forward to firing it up as soon as it arrives and will send pictures. Its first field expedition will probably be Jackson Lake in Grand Teton Nat'l Park this June - will definitely send pictures of that. It is somehow satisfying that the rather long and involved troubleshooting of this stove has yielded useful information for others. This introduction to the CCS community has been a very enlightening one. Thanks to ALL who submitted suggestions and ideas to try along the way. Special thanks to Doc Mark for his generosity, perserverance, and expertise. Regards, omp
