one of my 111B's has a few issues. Symptoms 1) Will not start easily even with full preheat. 2) The flame will favour one side and be unstable often going out 3) If a match is kept over the jet the flame will ignite and stay lit until match is removed 4) If nursed for a while the flame will burn extremely well but at time pulses and sparks are emitted. It will also leap to life if preheated with a propane torch. 5) When finally at full burn this is my most powerful 111B with boil times in the 2 minute range at full bore for two cups of water in a black kettle. 6) Clearing the jet with the needle seems to help 7) Is really a bugger to get going in cold weather. My other two 111B's one of which is much older are much better behaved. I have burnt three rounds of gas/carb cleaner through it and have removed some carbon deposits with a heat and quench of the burner though I admit to being unaggressive with the heat in this technique. I did remove some black carbon when tapping but the burner is unblocked and appears fairly good. The bronze fuel strainer is clear though the occasional fleck of carbon deposit does appear. I have replaced the jet twice and cleaning needle once with zero change. Any ideas?
Hi N61, This question might be obvious and possibly insulting to your intelligence (so sorry in advance) but I have to ask it - what fuel are you using?
I would do more heating & quenching to really clear out the burner, and when really clear, replace the jet.
Hello, Grab some carburator cleaner from the auto parts store. Put a capful in a half a tank of fuel. Let it sit overnight. Then try your lighting proceedure. Your wick may be clogged up with who knows what. If kero was used or fuel sat for ages in the tank it leaves a nasty residue. Here is something else to try. Take off the jet and add the carb cleaner to the fuel. Open the valve and let the tank sit in the Sun. The idea being is that the Sun will heat the tank and the expansion will allow the fuel to trickle out bringing the gunk with it. If you see dark colored fuel seeping out you know you are removing something. Chuck
Heat and quench no longer removing any particles. Burners seem relatively clean inside and blow clear. Symptoms continue. Will try carb cleaner overnight, Not to hopeful as I have had lots of carb cleaner through it and I don't think these things have a wick do they?
Hi North 61. Some observations: 1. The Optimus No.111B has a very simple burner. The fuel does not go into the burner tubes or vaporisation chamber. It merely exits the jet and hits what is effectively the "flame plate" 2. The burner tubes are "blind" and are just there to look pretty and hold the "flame-plate" in position. 3. If the tubes are not used they can't get blocked, so heating and quenching isn't going to do a lot of good. 4. Op.111B burners are incredibly sensitive to correct jet size. Too big or too small an aperture and you get all the symptoms you describe. 5. The only adjustment you have on this burner is the jet, so I would say try a brand new jet from a reputable supplier, or swap one from an Op 111B that you know works. 6. Check out this link for photos and comments: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/8946 Hope this helps. Best Regards, North 59 (nearly) Kerophile.
I suspect you are correct about the heat and quench. No blockages at all. What is the correct lettering on the jet? I have tried some different ones without much change Marked G (From a 123 rebuild set set) Marked W or M from a 111 rebuildset Haven't tried the Marked A from a 111C set (I assume this is alcohol)
Either the G or M jet should work, if it's for that burner. Do not use an A jet or you will get a fireball.
I am unable at present to fix the stove. Thinking a better pre-heat was needed I put in a fiberglass ring in the priming cup. Sure enough it started right up after a long-strong pre-heat. Unusual red sparks are numerous but the heat was excellent. When burned full bore it's good to go. When allowed to simmer the flame eventually becomes unstable and goes out even if the flame is turned up...when it's allowed to cool it becomes unpredictable. It won't restart as the gas from the stove puts the match out..it appears the air fuel mixture is off. Damnest thing. I also put in the G jet but the dfifference between G and M is not easy to see.
Kia Ora, I had the exact same problem... It was the jet size... 111B's are very touchy about exactly the right size jet. The nearer you are to 0.40 mm in orifice size the better.... The M jet will not work in my experience it's meant for a 111T which has better vapourisation than a 111B and runs a silent burner with very different air fuel ratio characteristics than a 111B roarer. I've had G jets that had orifice sizes the same as the M jet the A jet is too large. I wrote this in a post a while ago on my findings with the 111B "Hi My practical experience of 111's 111B's 111T's and 22's is that a 111 running on Kerosene can in reality tolerate a wide variety of jet sizes within reason ie dont try and run it on a alcohol jet. A 111B cannot stand any real variation in jet size . A 111T works fine with both petrol and Kerosene with the 2509 jet fitted. I'm having a severe headache currently trying to get a 111B to run well at all even with the 2510 jet fitted. This sizes up to be about 0.30mm as I used a micrometer on a 111B cleaning needle and found that to be 0.30mm and when inserted in the jet there is little if any play. This jet works fine in my 111 running on kerosene ( Jet 1 actually) But will not work in my 111B. I also measured the orifice sizes in about 5 other 111 type jets I have and using various different wires from the pricker from a primus 96 to the pricker on a burmos 21 to a strand from a fine wire brush I found the jets I have all varied from 0.27mm to 0.30. All ran well in the 111 with no real difference in power. None ran well in the 111B. The new less worn 2510 jet I have which measures 0.30 (or thereabouts) can get the stove running but only if I lift the flame ring about 3mm from it's base what I'm doing here is reducing the air available and altering the air / fuel mix so the stove can run. I'd say therefore that the 2510 jet is not letting enough fuel through. So even though a 2510 jet is stated to be the correct jet for a 111B it's not working on my stove.... I believe I need a larger orifice than 0.30mm to allow sufficent fueling for the burner. I hope the above fettling / experiments give some insights into 111's and the relationships to the jets they can and cannot use." I just think the 111B jets are getting a bit harder to find these days..... The Petrol / Benzine Jet from a Pheobus 625 works well in the 111B.... Hope this helps Cheers John
I have about 6 spare M jets and I might look for the largest..if it doesn't work as is, maybe some valve grinding compound on a piece of fine wire can extend the size. Thanks for the advice!
Hi, I bought this "bargain outfit" last week I haven't used the micro-drills yet but the quality appears very good. I reckon they will be useful for opening up the apertures on stove jets. Here is an extract from the Ebay advert: Best Regards, Kerophile
If swapping to a new jet doesn't solve the problem, and assuming the tank is holding pressure, there are only two other possibilities I can think of: 1. A blockage in the fuel tube leading to the burner. Perhaps the wire mesh has become encrusted with stuff it has filtered out. This is the easiest and cheapest to fix, try it first after the jet. 2. Something wrong in the valve assembly. Perhaps either the spindle or cleaning needle gears are damaged and improperly regulating fuel flow. Also check the graphite packing while you are at it, but it's doubtful that's the problem. One thing that struck me as odd was this in your post: "It won't restart as the gas from the stove puts the match out" Are you sure you're using white gas/Coleman fuel? I've never seen the "devil's fuel" extinguish a burning match regardless of the air/fuel mix percentage. Perhaps you have a bad batch of fuel?
Hi The only stove I've seen that will put out a match was blowing out the air from above the fuel not the fuel it's self. Maybe air is being drawn in somewhere, just a thought seen as all usual problems have been addressed.
North61. Could there be any possibility that you have got a small amount of water in the tank? When this water get into the burner, it vaporizes like the fuel, and water vapor burns rather poorly Looks like air too. Don't know if this is your problem, but I have encountered it a few times. Rather small amounts of water can cause the problem. Droplets of water can in fact float around in the fuel, get into the fuel line in small portions, and cause a behavior similar, or nearly similar, to what you describe.
Yep seen it and believe it....my symptoms were the exact same the flame was very hard to get lit and the vapour from the stove blew out the match.... The stove drove me nuts for about 3 weeks then I had a 'ah ha' moment and mic'd up the Pheobus 625 jet and hey presto one working 111B... the Pheobus jet has an orifice size of about 0.39-0.40 I feel that a new correctly sized jet will cure your problems.... Cheers John
I think John might win the rubber cigar here as I have tried the rest of the solutions. I have some diamond drills for my Dremel which might open up the M jet enough.
