Comparing stoves is an interesting proposition. There are so many factors: speed, efficiency, ease-of-use, weight, compatibility with other products, bulk, cooking capability, etc. to take into account. This review Trailspace.com Reactor vs. Jetboil PCS and GCS is interesting in that it tries to weigh these various factors against one another. HJ
In my view quick boil times are about as usefull as an anvil in a surgury. It means nothing even if you are planning just for a cuppa. Why? Becaue the next stop the times will likely be totally different. What really matters is the ease of use, the total weight of stove and fuel, and perhaps most important just how familiar you are with your stove. And how much you trust it compared to any other option in stoves. lance My view only and you may have strong feelings for yours which i will value as much as you value mine.
I sort of like Ross' very practical approach: is it fast enough for my taste? I've experimented with several soda can and other simple homemade alcohol stoves. Boiling times for 2 cups of water on those stoves is usually greater than seven minutes. I find 7 minutes a bit long for my taste -- and that 's just for two cups. It would be about 14 minutes for a liter at that rate. Nuts to that. I've seen MSR Reactors consistently boil an entire liter in about 3 minutes. Nice, but it doesn't have to be that fast for me, and I'm not about to go for the Reactor's price tag. Usually somewhere around 5 minutes for a liter suits me just fine. I agree completely with Lance that weight, ease of use, and dependability are factors equally if not more important. To those I would add fuel economy, fuel availability, purchase price, stability, wind resistance, bulk/packability, and simmering ability. I'm sure there are a couple of important attributes I've left out. HJ
Hi After five pages of posts and indepth investigation we come to the conclusion "a Primus 210 is a good stove. No s%^& Sherlock. Seriously I've never compared boil times, thanks to those of you who have done the graft.
well that was fun..there was more testing done here than the Swiss did on the LHC i wonder how this "time to boil" came about,maybe when it was the "new" classics V.S the old wick stoves and a fast boil was a big selling point.
Well, backpackers frequently eat freeze-dried meals that need to be rehydrated with boiling water. Boil times have long been a selling point for pack stoves -- which is probably why marketing departments have been overstating them for so long. To me worrying about a 3.5 minute boil vs. a 4 minute boil seems a bit silly. On the other hand, the main reason I don't typically use alcohol stoves is their long boil time which is often triple, quadruple, or even quintuple the boil time of a gas or liquid fueled stove. HJ P.S. What's an LHC?
Hi Jim My purpose in doing the 1995 or 1996 tests was solely to work out how much fuel I needed to carry on a trip away from sources of fuel. I also wanted to know which stoves were most weight effective although I thought that it would be the 96s. I had not used a 96 for forty years during which time my eating and drinking habits had radically changed. Also I had never used a Primus 210 or a 96 special in the field so had no idea of how much fuel they used. In the 1950s when I cycle camped with an Optimus 96 I did not drink hot drinks. I solely drank cold water. Food apart from bacon, sausages and eggs came in tins and was precooked. I only had to heat the tin contents rather than cook the food. This meant that fuel was not used for boiling water so my fuel consumption from those days was useless as now there are dehydrated foods which need cooking and water to boil for my tea. In those days I went away for a weekend or long weekend with a full 96 tank of fuel and never had to buy any fuel whilst I was away. I could definitely get 5 hot meals out of a tankful of fuel and may have got 7 hot meals out of it on an Easter weekend. My tanks were full of fuel without space for any more. The airspace in a tank is to prevent over pressurising a stove. If you have less airspace you simply watch the flame and judge the number of pump strokes from the intensity of the flame. The domed top of a tank precludes you totally filling a tank which would be dangerous as liquid cannot be compressed so a very slight input of air could increase the pressure to a dangerous level. Cooking on a small capacity stove with a low heat output and poor flame spread causes problems getting food to cook in cold conditions. I like fried eggs but in cold conditions could not get them to cook on either an Optimus 96 or 80 both of which have similar heat outputs and flame spreads I could not get the egg white to fully cook and I have the oddity that partly cooked or uncooked egg white makes me feel sick. The obvious solution was to cook the egg on both sides which not only fully cooks the egg white but fully hardens the yolk. This highlighted another problem that I did not know that I had. The yolk of an egg cooked on both sides seems to turn dry so eating the yolk of an egg cooked in that way was unpleasant to me. I accidentally found the solution when I broke the yolk of an egg when cracking the egg open. The yolk flowed over the top of the egg without mixing with the white and without any concentrations of the yolk. When an egg with a broken yolk is fried on both sides the egg white is fully cooked and the yolk is cooked but stays moist. My young (at the time) son christened them as "dad's eggs" which is a lot shorter than eggs with their yolks broken and fried on both sides. If you try it break the yolk immediately the egg goes in the pan which allows the yolk to flow freely over the white. I still like my eggs fried in that way although any watchers look quite startled when my knife shoots into the pan and breaks an unbroken yolk! There is usually a startled exclamation "You broke the yolk!" as if I had done something wrong. Regards Bryan
Good Morning, HJ, and All. I'll toss in my two-pence worth, if I may. There are times, when Sweet Bride and I want to boil water as quickly as we can. Admittedly, this doesn't come to the fore often, but it does happen. When backpacking at high elevation, and in the cold, it's sometimes necessary to fire up the stove and get something hot into you as fast as possible, to avoid the dreaded effects of hypothermia. Also, when we have backpacked up in Alaska, where fording icy rivers and streams require immersion up to the waste, or sometimes higher, without a stove that would boil water quickly, you may very well die!! It's as simple as that, Folks! Coming out of such icy waters leaves you shivering uncontrollably, with feet that feel as is you've just danced over a thousand knives!! In such situations, we most certainly were glad that we brought a stove that produced hot water in a very short amount of time, I can honestly tell you!! 8) But, it may surprise you to know that the stove we relied on to produce this quickly boiled hot water, was none other than our beloved Optimus 81 Trapper METHS stove, HJ!! The other couple that was with us, a Police Officer and his wife, had taken an MSR Whisperlite Internationale 600, and in truth, even before he could get out his stove, assemble it, prime it, and get it going, we were already well on our way to having hot water, every single time! We kept our Trapper topped up with Meths, and when needed, all we did was pull out the fuel plug, which Optimus call a "Safe-Fill", strike a match, lower it down inside the fuel tube, and VOILA, we were off and running!! Our friend, Gene, was shocked, surprised, and somewhat dismayed that our stove worked so much more quickly than did his!! Also, because of the fact that the Trapper worked outstandingly in the wind, much the same as do the Trangia stoves, Gene finally gave up trying to get his MSR going when we were on the windswept Steppes in Alaska, perhaps crouching behind a boulder, or snag, and asked us if we wouldn't mind him using our Optimus 81 Trapper! Now, THAT, my friend, is an honest endorsement from someone who was not happy with their own stove choices, on the one hand, and of the Trapper, itself, on the other! Now that I have learned the in's and out's of the Trangia stoves, I wouldn't hesitate to rely on one of those, too, on such an adventure, but I would take a "White Box" popcan stove, with which I would augment the Trangia burner to make it even a faster boiling stove. Think back to our first Mini-Meet, up in Icehouse Canyon. You may remember that my little Trangia 27 boiled my tea water in a very short time, and I was exceedingly happy with it's performance. For what it's worth, I think that having a fast-boiling stove is sometimes necessary. BUT, you might be surprised to find out just which stoves are actually "fast", and which one's aren't, all things taken into consideration!! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc P.S. HJ, see you tomorrow, Mate!! Ahhhh, pastrami and stoves!! How much better does it get, eh?!!
Thanks to all that was a very enjoyabnle topic to read. Of course it answers some questions and opens up others. Cheers, John
Thats a good point. With all the makers claims and most of the tests here the stove was fully warmed up before the test began. When the world depends on it the real test starts when you open your pack and reach for the stove. This is one reason that gasies and triangias are so popular with solo trampers. They do boil a small amount of water very fast.My Cadac Adventure has 2 cups of water steaming before the dragonfly can actually be turned on The colemans with easy start would be next (running Coleman fuel) then all out favourite stoves purely because of the time taken to prime them. By the time you get to about 5 cups of water or a little over a litre they are quite even but more than this and its our favourites every time.
Hey HJ and Doc, I too have been very impressed with alcohol stoves. I really think it comes down to the fiddle factor. With a Trangia it is as simple as light and go. I figure about a minute to set up and light a Trangia. That's quick. Am I getting lazy or smarter? Cheers, Manny
Hi, Guys, Some of you may remember a post I wrote about how my Trangia 25, setup with the popcan burner for boiling, and then the Trangia burner for simmering, boiled a FULL pot of water in a very short time. I posted photos of it in action. If you'd like, I can dig those photos out, and post them again. But, especially using the combination of both burners, it was super quick, easy, and neat as a pin! If you need more info, please let me know, and I'll come back later today to do my best to remember how that all went down, time-wise. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (who's back to work....) 8-[
Well, do bring your Trangia to LAMM2 tomorrow. All right, true confessions time. Yes, it's true, I've picked up a Trangia. Looks like I may have to renounce my earlier judgment that alcohol stoves are simply too slow. Bill (Parramethtrol) pointed one out on eBay that he liked, so I bought it. Look for photos after LAMM2. I like it's set up, and the one I got is vintage and feels pretty solid. QUESTION: should the holes in the base be pointed into the wind (i.e. leeward) or away from the wind (i.e. windward)? I would assume that the holes should be on the leeward side, but I keep hearing about how Trangias do better in the wind, so perhaps the holes should face into the wind? I think I have the larger Trangia (#25) with the 1.5 L and 1.75 L pots. It's quite a bit bigger than I thought. I suppose this means I'll have to get a #27 as well. But first I need to get used to my new one. The burner is different that the Trangia burners I've seen. It must be either an older type or a substitute. I'll try and post a photo. HJ
Hey, HJ, Congratulations on your "new" Trangia 25, Mate!! And, for Bill, well done on passing along that info to HJ!! 8) HJ, the holes face into the wind, and help create a venturi effect which makes the Trangia really go. It will never compete with the super powerful monsters out there, but that is not it's purpose. Trangias work very well, and so do in a fine manner, though, and their ease of use will win you over in a heartbeat, too! Now, just wait until you see the popcan addition to my own 25! It's a fine combo, and since it weighs very little, is WELL worth adding to the mix. I'll bring three Trangia's tomorrow, just for grins, and look forward to seeing yours, too! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Thanks, Mark, I really appreciate your bringing several different rigs for me to look at. I'd especially like to look at the burners. My burner doesn't have a cap or a simmer ring. One of the things that appeals to me about a Trangia is the ability to simmer, so I'll probably buy a new burner. I'd love to see your burners -- particularly your White Box which I've heard a lot about but have never seen. Yeah, my Trangia is a nice bit of kit, but I wish I'd gotten the 27. Well, this one can be used for shorter trips where bulk and weight matter less. If it works as well as everyone says, maybe I won't mind lugging all that weight and bulk around. It weighs over 2 lbs. -- just a hair shy of a kilogram. By contrast, my MSR Titan mug + a small homemade alcohol burner (cat food can with holes punched in it) weighs less than 5 oz (141g). Of course I'd need to add a windscreen, and even with a windscreen I doubt that my rig would work as well in the wind as a Trangia. I can't wait to try the Trangia out in a stiff wind! Looking forward to LAMM2 tomorrow!! HJ
I've found the smaller 27 to be the better performer. Is it the vintage Trangia you got? The burners were a fair bit different on them & IMO not as good as heavy duty as the late qtr one of the 20th century
BOIL!!!boil,what about the simmer -- when the tea is made there is the loooong wait and very-very low heat while the stew is simmering or the bannock is browning unless you have one of Doc's Trapper stoves you will have a hard time adjusting an alcohol burner--note,i said burner and not stove
Not really; you should, without too much effort, be able to get a modern Trangia bnr w/ simmer ring to maintain a low simmering flame for 60 - 90 minutes, possibly longer, but certainly long enough for most things you might want to cook under canvas.
