@shagratork Where do you source Bio - ethanol in the North East, would it be at B&Q..? Regards, Optimust.
@Optimust I have seen bio-ethanol on sale in B&Q at 'buy two and get one free'. However, a friend of mine works for a chemical company and I was given a 25 lire drum of pure ethanol for nothing!
Sorry Trevor if it came across as making light of your valid concerns about methanol, it wasn't my intention at all. Murph was making an interesting point about relative risk via the LD50 figures, and methanol is comparatively more toxic than ethanol and you're right saying people should be aware and take suitable precautions if they decide to use it. Think I posted elsewhere that B&Q do bio ethanol for home living flame fires but it isn't particularly cheap ETA crossed post syndrome..
shagratork, The toxicity of methanol is far greater than ethanol food grade for sure, and denatured ethanol. I was comparing the toxicity of methanol to white gasoline or "Coleman Fuel" MSDS in the USA lists both as hazard level 3. More detailed reading indicates methanol to be more toxic, yet warns of skin/inhalation/ingestion dangers of both. I go thru far more Coleman/Crown fuel than methanol, so the MSDS is all I can offer. Of course the food grade ethanol Everclear is the least toxic fuel, doubling as a fine mixed drink base with some care! KM
Hi @butthead I thank you for considered reply. The fuels we use in our stoves all have their negative effects. We use Coleman Fuel/Aspen4, Paraffin/Kerosene, alcohol/methylated spirits/ethanol. However, if not used carefully, methanol can be a killer, so why use it?
Well long as I'm here, 1 1/2 oz of 190 proof Everclear 14 ounces water (preferred from the US/Canada border lakes at sunset), and a single serving of Crystal Lite Pink Lemonade. KM
@shagratork, Thanks for your prompt reply, B&Q it is, sounds a good deal, & back to clean pots. Best regards. Optimust.
Whether it be Coleman gas or denatured alcohol stove fuel sold as 50-50 methanol-ethanol, I find I cannot handle any liquid fuel, including kerosene, without some exposure to small spills on my hands. I suppose I could always wear nitrile gloves when handling the fuel, but I am lazy. If we get too concerned then I would probably quit this hobby since breathing the by-products of combustion would be nearly impossible to avoid. I guess living in the fossil fuel era may likely kill me at some point from the constant exposure, but I don't want to live in constant fear, either. I like to ride my bicycle, which is wonderful for my health, until some aggressive pickup truck runs me over. (Don't get too defensive here, I have an F-150 too.) So, I keep rolling the dice and hoping that it's not my time right now. Brad
Because ethanol is taxed and methanol isn't. Anything that takes 3.4 ounces to kill you isn't a "deadly poison", it's just not good for you. Nicotine at 200 -300 mg, I'm concerned. Potassium cyanide at 50 mg, now we're working into rather poisonous. Aconitine HCl at 3-5mg, Bugger, NOW you start looking for a glovebox!!! The reference to old washerwomen is the old crones that go on that everything is "so dangerous, oh dear" when it's a gross overstatement on their part. We've had chaps here get their knickers bound over a 2 in square piece of asbestos - really? Give it a break. In the scale of things, methanol is a Shakespearian chemical - much ado about nothing. We've professional fire fighters ( @z1ulike ) and several blokes with degrees in chemistry here on the forum , none of them would turn a hair handling methanol, I suspect.
Well, denatured ethanol isn't taxed. Indeed, the entire point of "denaturing" was purely to remove ethanol from the tax rolls in the first place. It was simply to poison the ethanol, thus making it undrinkable, thus removing it from the category of beverage alcohol, and thus allowing it to be employed in any non-beverage purpose without taxation. That's why it was called denatured alcohol in the US. "Methylated spirit", the Brit term, I always figured meant the same thing, though it implies methanol specifically as the denaturing agent.
I'd recommend indoor/outdoor fireplace bio-ethanol. It is 100% ethanol with no added methanol or isopropyl alcohol. Denatonium Benzoate is the denaturing agent. It is the most bitter compound known and dilutions of as little as 10 ppm are unbearably bitter to most humans. Ben
Seems like online is the only way for me to get some. I see 12 bottles for 59.99. Free shipping. Could the Moonshine lobby have anything to do with limiting the sale of this bioethanol here in NC? You are in California, that biofuel must grow on trees.
Wikipedia has quite a good short article about denatured alcohol/methylated spirit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatured_alcohol
Great reviews here for one particular suppliers product. Thought I would post this again as I can't immediately find the original thread. https://www.amazon.co.uk/GREAVES-CO...1533637262&sr=8-16&keywords=methylated+spirit
@shagratork where do you see bio ethanol cheaper than meths? I'm intrigued... @Simes have you see the Screwfix No Nonsense one? Seems to work well and is half the price.... https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-methylated-spirit-500ml/13028 Home Bargains are usually cheaper still (sometimes little more than £1.00 per 500ml) when they have stock....and Wow Camping Online used to offer it at around £1.50/500ml but don't seem to stock it currently. All interesting stuff - the more money we save on fuel the more money we can spend on stoves which means we will need more fuel.....
@shagratork you are aware that ALL bottles of wine ( especially red) have up to 10% methanol in them. Is it toxic? Yes. Compared to a lot of things not realy. If your not happy using it, then don't but you expose yourself to methanol almost every day from a lot of sources. Any fuel is toxic to some degree. In days gone by, waste benzine was added to petrol to get rid of it( this used to go on with a lot of chemical/food industries).
In Europe all denatured alcohol has to conform to the same spec. Which is quite loose but it allows for the sale in the UK of clear denatured alcohol as opposed to what we had to have before which was purple meths. You can still buy purple denatured alcohol but it still has to conform to the same specs. I think suppliers add the purple colouring because people are familiar with it. There is no mystery to ethanol based fuels IMHO. 90% ethanol is a decent burner but you can get 95%+ which burns a tad hotter and gives a good whoomf when you double prime. . As said before ethanol is ethanol no matter how it's produced so labels like "bio" don't necessarily mean has a different chemical composition. This is what I have been using this week. 95% ethanol.
