Many a backpacker seems to have gone all "ga ga" crazy over the BRS-3000T. The BRS-3000T is the world's lightest gassie at 25 grams (0.9 oz). No, that is not a typo; 25 grams. They're cheap enough, so I bought one from China. Right away, on my first test before taking it out in the field, I noticed that the pot supports were really interfering with the flame. Quite a lot of discoloration in the flame, I thought. A bit unusual. I haven't seen it, at least not to that extent in other stoves. The pot supports really take a thermal beating. Observe the color that they are glowing. I took the stove out to a nearby state park. It was a bit windy. Not a light breeze, but certainly not heavy wind either. I'll call it moderate with occasional stronger gusts. I put 3 cups of water (approx. 750 ml) in the pot. I fired it up. And waited... and waited... and waited. After a bit, perhaps 10 minutes, I noticed something rather odd. My pot was listing to port! I quickly grabbed my pot off the stove before I lost my lunch! What appears to have happened is that the wind concentrated the flame on one of the pot supports. Hard to see in this photo, but the flame is very blown to the left. I believe thermal absorption under load (only 3 cups of water, but still a load) caused what is known as creep deformation. It's not a sudden failure but rather a structural weakening of the material and a gradual deformation. I don't know how well this will show, but the pot support on the right has deformed down, out, and with a bit of a clockwise twist. I'm convinced that it was the concentration of the flame on the pot support (and the longish burn time as I waited for the pot to boil in wind) that caused the creep deformation. I'd like to verify this though. I believe, absent wind, a longish burn (10 to 15 minutes) will not be detrimental to the stove. I'd like to bend the pot support back into place. The material is said to be titanium. How can I get the best results? Simply grip firmly with a pair of pliers and bend it back into shape? Or should I heat it first? Will repeated heatings serve only to weaken it further? Oh, and should you be interested, there's a full review on my (ahem) lovely blog: The BRS-3000T – the World's Lightest Stove There's a few more photos, some analysis, and some recommendations. HJ
Very disappointing and irrefutable evidence from you @hikin_jim. I can't see that there's a lasting repair in prospect. In the trash it would go would be my course of action. John
Hi @hikin_jim Jim, I believe that you are spot on with your failure investigation and diagnosis. Titanium has a melting point of around 1700 deg C compared with around 1400 deg C for mild steel. However relatively pure Ti tends to lose strenghth above around 450 deg C and the maximum service temperature is around 600 deg C. Special Ti alloys can offer better performance but are unlikely to be specified for consumer applications such as camping equipment. Titanium is a poor conductor of heat, so is prone to localised overheating, since heat cannot readily be conducted away. The over-heated area of say a stove leg could rapidly exceed the 600 deg C maximum service temperature and the metal will then rapidly deform by thermal creep. Best Regards, Kerophile
Interesting review. Thank you for a throrough review. I know there are 'gram weinies', but if your at the point that the stove weighs less then the canister!... Or do these people inly take 'part used' ones to save weight? I have a few pocket rockets and similar in brew kits ( there are always at least two stoves in the car!). I comparison they are heavy but they 'just work!
@hikin_jim You certainly exposed the weakness (tradeoff) of this design with your test. No chance I would go gaga over a canister stove, but still interesting as this confirms my experience: a good windscreen is more important than the stove. The heat needs to go up into the pot. Some time ago I had a Fire Maple (Optimus rip off?) possibly like the one on your blog. “Somebody” happened to step on it so I did a bit of reshaping of the pot supports on that one – just cold bending, no problem. I have also straightened titanium sporks and such, but I have no idea what heat does to titanium. You have a more extreme situation there with this little one. I gave the Fire Maple away, so I am not sure about it’s performance after my reshaping. I do have a big box of half full canisters from my not so successful gassie days, so this 25 g thingy could be a fun toy for tempered indoor coffee duty at GBP 9 incl shipping. Also interesting the burner head has holes with a cover angling the jets sideways? Thanks, and all the best, e
Nice work Jim. Hopefully word will spread. I was curious if this was another (BRS) cut-rate-copy/knockoff of a good stove design. And, reading your full article you did indeed point that out, diplomatically -- thanks again.
Thanks for the review. The following is not directed at anyone, just me ranting about somthing that has bugged me for a long time. Why people continue to support the chinese rip-off stove manufacturers is beyond me. Buying one, even just to "test it", is still putting money in their pockets. As I see it, they will never be collectibles because of huge production numbers, and their quality is almost always (if not always) reported to be inferior to the "real" stoves they ripped off. I, personally, could care less about their cheap prices compared to "name brand" stoves, because it seems to me like the "name brand" stoves will still be working long after the rip-off stoves have failed and have been sent to the recycling yard. So what is the real benefit then, to a cheap price, if you have to replace the rip-off stove several times? Wouldn't that money be better spent up front on a real, quality stove? Another thing that amazes me about the rip-off stoves: I seldom recall reading any review or observation about them where seals/o-rings, crap manufacturing, poor performance, etc, were not an issue right out of the box or very shortly thereafter, or repairs and/or modifications were required before the stove could be used. Lots of videos on the youtube about these rip-off stoves being junk. Granted, not everyone who is buying them are heading out on extreme mountaineering adventures in demanding condition, needing ultimate reliability in a life/death situation, I know that. I would also venture to guess that nobody is taking a rip-off stove into these situations anyway. I guess I'm just constantly baffled as to why people continue to buy the rip-off stoves and supporting that industry rather than buying from the "name brand" manufacturers to begin with. BRS = Big Rip-off Stove. Gonna go give my all my Trangia, Optimus, Primus, Coleman, and PW stoves a big hug now, and thank them for their years of unwavering quality service, and send a huge two finger salute to the rip-off manufacturers.
Thanks HJ. What many old school users don't understand is many are shooting for bragging rights to have the lowest base weight. On the other hand, those shooting for a low base weight will go to about any measure to save money. A stove for a fraction of the price of the real deal is very tempting, not looking at how long it may last then have to be replaced. Many if not all may not use a windscreen to save weight which would speed boil times, more worried about over heating the canister which won't happen unless a near empty canister was used. Also, I don't think many would boil that much water, more like under 2 cups of water. Your test HJ may have been beyond reasonable expectations. ) Duane
@hikin_jim Good Morning, HJ, and All, First off, outstanding review, Jim, and I concur with your findings, and appreciate you having posted them here!! For those who buy cheap knock-off stoves, for whatever reason, I believe they are, pretty much, tilting at windmills in doing so. The original stoves, on which the knock-off's are modeled, are simply not THAT much more expensive than the El Cheapos. Next, the originals offer the best and most reliable performance, so why waste your money on something with less quality, just to save a few ducats?! For those who buy to satisfy some oddball need for saving weight, AT ALL COSTS, do so at their own peril!! To me, part of the enjoyment of "being out there" is in the enjoyment of fine articles of equipment, comfortable in the knowledge that your gear will get you through your adventure, safe and sound, and happy. Gram Weinies are, IMHO, missing the entire point of going to the woods, mountains, and deserts!!! IF that's what they want to do, then so be it, and good luck. Like @Hazet Jon, I will stick to the tried and true gear, from stoves to sleeping bags, to tents, and everything else! For me, there is satisfaction in owning and using quality gear, and I would take NO pleasure in shaving off every single gram in an effort to have "bragging rights"!!! Doing that is a Fool's Errand, as far as I'm concerned, and can easily become very dangers to life and limb!! I smile when looking back at some of the excellent adventures Sweet Bride and I have enjoyed. On almost every single one, we have met some hiker who has shaved off so much weight from their gear, that they are uncomfortable, cold, starving, and miserable, at one time, or the other!!! We have fed countless "Gram Weinies" who were watching us cook and eat delicious and nutritious meals, and looking like starved dogs!!!!! Jon, I'm with you, 100%!!! Best to stop buying the El Cheapo knock-off's and leave them to gather dust on some Manufacturers shelf. Best to buy and use the best you can find. The satisfaction of a cheap deal will soon fade to nothing, whilst the reliable enjoyment of quality gear will continue for years, and years!!!! Thanks, again, Jim, for your detailed report and photos! Well done!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
The fix I see would be a wind screen/pot support external to the stove. There goes the weight savings. And likely the size savings. Durability untested. No reason for getting such a stove. I agree it is hugely frustrating to find such basic flaws in a new product with such hype in the adverts. Ivan
That may well be. I will certainly never use it on any serious hike where a stove might really matter. I may yet experiment with it. I've talked to people who have melted snow on it, conducting 18 - 20 minute burns without problem. I'm therefore all the more convinced that it was the wind shifting the flame onto the one pot support that led to the failure. I've been accused of over-burdening the stove which I believe is incorrect. I've talked to people who have put multi-liter pots on the stove. What's different about my experience? Wind. It's a rather weak stove. I bent the pot support back into place with my fingers. HJ
Thank you for that. You're the second person who has mentioned that 600 C figure for maximum service temperature. Considering that the flame temperature of a propane-butane mix in air is about 1970 C, more than triple the max service temperature, it's not inconceivable that the pot support could exceed the max. HJ
Yes, absolutely essential to have a windscreen with this stove in particular. If one lets the wind shift the flame onto one of the pot supports, a failure may result. And, yes, an interesting series of vanes on the burner head, presumably to provide better fuel/air mixing. HJ
Don't get distracted by the pot size or the amount of water. I've talked to guys who have put 3 L pots (full) on the stove without a problem. The issue here is wind -- and a design flaw. Absent the wind, I could have put triple the amount of water without a problem. HJ
Thank you, Doc. I was pleased with how the flame shots showing the change in color turned out. I thought it illustrated what I was seeing in person. I fully agree. Right now, if one were to want an inexpensive, high quality stove -- one with wind resistance -- one could go to Camp Saver and get the Soto Amicus for $32 (my review of the Amicus if anyone is interested). Soto is making some of the best gassies around, and, no, they're not that much more than the El Cheapo -- and that's just what the BRS-3000T is, cheap. I happen to like good engineering, a quality sorely lacking in the BRS-3000T. HJ
This may be a dumb question but at what point of shaving weight do you need to also reduce the power output? The BRS-3000T is rated 2700Watt ~ 9200BTU SVEA 123 ~ 4700BTU For a ultra-lite solo stove wouldn't half the power be enough for most applications short of melting snow ??
I agree! I find this little stove to run a little too hot for its own good. My specimen, at full throttle, makes me fear the flames could lift off, and that's before any heat could reflect back to the canister. Half throttle could be a suitable max output in my book.
HJ, I read the comments on bpl, your tests showed the point of failure to which the stove could go. Opinions varied of course. ) Duane
Thats all just numbers. In both cases, the max power output is dependent of pressure that is dependent of temperature in the fuel tank. The LPG-burner is cooling down the cartride when using it, so the power will be reduced over time. The Svea 123 heat up the tank, and the power is increasing over time. For melting snow, the Svea 123 is probably putting out more power than the LPG-cartrige stove when the snow is no longer snow. Most of them that are claiming the LPG is working in the cold, doesn't understand that they don't have the power output they have read the stove will give them. Those that are melting snow over 20 minutes on this stove, probably doesn't have the power output that will heat the pot holders too much.
