I've just received an Army No12 off eBay, and there seem to be a whole host of problems . However, I paid a reasonable price for it so I'm going to give it a go to get it working and hopefully it will be a good learning experience. First problem is the fuel cap. It binds lightly at one particular place once it is halfway on each time it rotates, and gets tight quite quickly. It then leaks from around the threads when I pressure up. There is a rubber washer inside the fuel cap which I guess may be warn although it looks OK. I used some vaseline on the washer and threads and tightened it up really tight with a rubber 'boa constrictor' tool and that seemed to do the trick although it's a bit of a faff. Next problem is the pump, the pump leather is covered in black sticky gunk which I cleaned up. Seems to work OK now but I'd like to get it cleaner. The spindle is bent down a little so with the multikey in place it doesn't turn on/off easily - the multikey wants to sweep a big circle which doesn't fly through the case hole. I think that the valve that the spindle controls is leaky as when I light it stays lit even with the spindle turned fully clockwise. Little bits of blue flame come out of the jet, around the jet, and around the nut that holds the spindle in place. No nice blue flame, just big yellow flames and the only way to shut it down is to release the pressure in the tank. So, I think that just about everything possible is wrong with it, except perhaps with the pump, which seems OK so far. I'm sure I can break that too, though . Any tips from you experts on where I should start with this thing? Thanks so much, Crispy
Sounds like you're experiencing the joys of owning one of these - see elsewhere on CCS - here. Are you planning to come to Newark next week? - always assuming Cambridge is the one in England and not Massacheusetts (IIRC). Plenty of help available there
Hi there, Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to make it to Newark, but I have taken some photos and will be gradually trying to strip it down and clean it up over the next few days. Hopefully that should get it working acceptably. This is the stove Comes with a nice funnel, shame the metal filter gauze is split Signs that wrenches have been used to tighen the fuel cap enough to prevent leaks And comes with a hefty tool Haven't tried to disassemble pump yet Here's a picture of the grungy pump leather, think there is some gunk down in the pump tube that I need to clean out. The spindle bit
So, on to the first problem. I thought I'd try to figure out why the nipple leaks. This is a picture down into the burner after removing the top cap thing. And this is the cleaning needle. Is the needle supposed to be so short? It doesn't poke all the way through the burner jet... Perhaps I need a new Opti 111 one... Tomorrow, I'll try lighting up without the needle and see what happens. I've got some citric acid on order and want to give the burner head a nice bath. Should I take the needle, jet, spindle, packing etc out first and bathe each one separately, or just remove the needle then dunk the rest? Will citric acid upset stainless steel if I happen to get some on the case?
Hi Crispy, Your stove looks basically sound. I suspect at some time the cap washer became hard and without a replacement available in the field someone just tried to make it tighter with pliers (as you suggest). My guess is that it's the cap that has been squeezed out of true. If I get the chance over the weekend I'll have a play to see if there are any suitable alternatives from other stoves that might fit. If you remove the spindle you should be able to make a reasonable fist of straightening it in a plain jaw vice (i.e. flat surface, not dimpled). Annealing the spindle first (i.e. heating to cherry red and then cooling) will help with the straightening. I've found with many army stoves that they seem to use some sort of thick grease on the pump washers, and if new, this shows up to be green. Just soak the leather is some paraffin to get rid of it. If you remove the pump tube you can clean it up the same way, or just twisted up kitchen towel rotated in the tube will also get the worst out. If you remove the pump tube replace the washer. These are fibre type washers and I've been caught out a couple of times with using the existing one because it "looks" OK, but never really achieving expected performance. Eventually changed out the pump tube washer on both occassions as a last resort (my No.12 and a No.2) and the performance improved immensely I think you need a new cleaning needle. It'll run fine without it. Ref. the yellow flames carefully check the nipple. Mine was worn oval when I looked at it closely and I think I recall another member saying their's was the same - this is curious as mine had never been fired! However, I suspect squaddies get "trained" on maintenance of these items in the workshop without it ever being fired, or maybe there was a bad batch of nipples floating around. An Opti 111 nipple will replace the existing if you have a problem. Careful with the citric acid - the burner is a mixture of metals and you could end up with the less noble metal (the softer copper/brass) being sacrificed through electrolytic reaction. This type of burner shouldn't get too internally blocked, but if required I'd be more tempted to use heat and quench rather than citric acid. Alternatively some squirts of carb cleaner might also help. Any cleaning should be done with the burner fully dismantled. Hope this helps. Cheers, Graham.
Forgot - It won't be the nipple that is leaky, that's just the observable symptom. It'll be the valve that isn't sealing properly. This might be a syptom of the bent spindle or it could well be the cleaning needle was not installed correctly meaning that the needle hits the stops prior to the valve sealing meaning it leaks after you have appeared to turn it off. Run it without the cleaning needle as you suggested and if it cures the problem you'll know that the needle just neeeds to be reinstalled correctly. If it still leaks without the needle then it could be either the bend is preventing the spindle from fully closing or the pointed end of the spindle is damaged and not seating properly. For this you'll need to either remake the point (mount the spindle in a drill that is clamped in a workmate or similar and gently remake the point using emery paper folded round a small file), or buy a new one. The seating surface within the burner might also be damaged. This might be able to be fixed by applying some grinding paste to the point of the spindle and gently keep rotating the spindle to grnind down the internal surface. If it's too bad you might have to find or make up some sort of abrasive tool that can be inserted down to the hole on a power drill to remake a smooth surface. I've never yet had to do this - anyone else any suggestions on an off the shelf drill bit for this? Cheers, Graham.
Bom*4, thanks so much for your extremely helpful reply. I'll spend some time working on these things. One quick question: Where can I get a replacement pump tube washer from? It's quite a big one... I'm going to try to find a 24mm socket today to fit the pump tube. Thanks again, Crispy
Thanks Bom*4 for the PM about pump tube washers :-) Sorry for the flood of questions, I have one more after trying to research how to remove the spindle. Am I safe to remove the packing nut and remove the spindle without messing up any graphite packing material? Should I be ordering any spare parts from base camp before attempting this? Thanks, Crispy
Depends on the state of the graphite packing and how much it's been compressed in the past. There's no hard and fast rules. It might come out intact and you might be able to remove it from the spindle OK so it is reusable. Or it might just crumble away as soon as you look at it. Additionally, a bent spindle might make it difficult to remove the graphite packing around the actual kink, bearing in mind you need to remove the graphite packing before you attempt to straighten the spindle. Cheers, Graham.
Not totally ideal but a good quality adjustable spanner might well do the trick if you are careful. Needs to be a goodun though otherwise you risk rounding the flats if it's on tight. On mine I had the luxury of also owning a No.2 that includes the right size spanner in the kit. However the spanner is quite short so I slipped a length of steel pipe over the handle to increase the leverage.
if the No12 stove shares the same pump with the No2 stove ( I think I read somewhere that it does ) then it is a 24mm spanner/socket you need - just been & checked my No2 - it's 23.7mm across flats .
Hi there, I got the 24mm socket, and with a bit of heating to the tank area, the pump unscrewed nicely. It seems in good condition and cleaned up nicely. The NRV is a little brass cylinder that screws onto the end of the pump tube. It contains a spring connected to a metal piece with a soft piece of rubber stuck into it. This bit of rubber presses into the hole at the end of the pump tube to seal the tank. I cleaned this all up and trimmed the edges of the soft rubber bit so that it moves more freely inside the NRV cylinder. Now, when I pump the NRV sticks until suddenly there is a 'pop' and it releases with a burst of air. Is that how it should be? I've also removed the spindle and found that the teeth are bent. Here are pictures: So, to get this working I think I need (items together with part numbers from base-camp optimus part list) * New spindle 2191 Regulator spindle for burners 2004, 9000, 9001, 9003. Stoves 5R, 7, 10, 11, 111C, 535 Kero * Graphite packing 2094 Graphite packing for burners, 207, 209, 221, 222, 2004, 2018 * 6 tooth needle 2455 Cleaning needle, 6 tooth, for old stoves 22, 111, 111B, 535, Marine stoves 154 & 155, Oven 156 Can anyone knowledgeable confirm that these are the right bits to fit the No 12? Thanks, Crispy
Yep, that sounds about right but you'll really need to try it in situ with fuel in the tank to be absolutely sure. I can't help you with the spindle etc. - these were serviceable on mine so I didn't disturb them. In case anyone's interested Genuine Army Surplus in Darlington have several No. 12s for sale at £80 each. I didn't get a chance to look at them closely but they appeared either new or newly refurbished. PT me if you're in the market for one...
Just been on their website ... they are hiding them well .... Or I need new specs ! Anyway I have one to look at next weekend
Hi Crispy! I bought one of these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Camping-Stove...0?hash=item2ea581f2bf&_trksid=p3286.m63.l1177 to service my No12 all the parts you need for the burner with some parts to spare. Even used the wick material as my spirit cup had a slight leak. Hope this helps. Regards Paul
Looks like a comprehensive kit. Did you buy it from the states? My three bits from base-camp would cost £17, so for just a few more pounds (and perhaps a wait on delivery) I'd end up with a bunch of nipples too if I went with one of those kits :-)
Yeah, ordered from the states, from that seller about a year ago. Think I got more dollars for my pound then though! Was delivered within a week. Regards Paul
I've ordered a spares kit from eBay, and going to place an order from base camp as well so that I end up with some spare spares. I can't figure out which cleaning needle to get. Can anyone help me identify mine, in the picture above? Is it 6 tooth or 5 tooth? I can count 6 'teeth', but apparently its a 5-tooth needle needed for the 111C, and all the other No. 12 bits are from the 111C...
I'm afraid I don't know enough about the 111C to make the determination about No.12 parts. But my No.12 certainly has a 6 tooth needle. However, I've wondered in the past about whether using a 5 tooth might give more range although I'm not sure I really need more power at the current top end Maybe get one of each and experiment and let us know the results? Cheers, Graham.
