I suspect that "panel wipe" and "VM&P" Naphtha are the same thing, or darned close. I just got off the phone with the petroleum company where we buy our kerosene in Colorado Springs, ( still 2.99 per gallon! ) they've never heard of alkylate gasoline or Aspen 4T. The sell e85, biodiesel, racing fuel, diesel, solvents, ( but not naphtha... I asked )and lubricants. I suspect it's very rare over here or known as something else. I tried...
In the UK Aspen is used as racing fuel (I was told by a supplier) so might be worth looking at that? Alan
http://www.macraesbluebook.com/search/product_company_list.cfm?prod_code=5608800®ion=Colorado-CO worth a call to Denver to see?
Hi Mike, I called Harpel Oil, one that I know is an actual outlet. (some of those are offices for wholesalers or dealers or something) Even though it lists all those petro products on "Macraes", Harpel hasn't sold anything except gasoline, kerosene, and propane for about 15 years according to the gal who picked up after the secretary had me spell "naphtha"... For now, I still have an excellent supply for myself. I was just looking for informational purposes.
What about turpentine, either as a stand alone fuel or an additive? Honestly, with a well made still and proper temp control, distilling the garbage out of your gasoline shouldn't be any more dangerous than anything else involving flammable solvents. I don't know if I buy the story about Coleman gas being 55 octane. The old Amoco white gas was 100 octane. I use Coleman fuel in my chainsaws, including 3 Echo chainsaws that require 92 or higher octane gas and have had no problems, even with extensive use. No detonation. No melted pistons. Just smooth, powerful, clean running,
Hi Jay, Wouldn't be the first time reality differed from Wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel I have read that naphtha is used in a lot of RC engines, but no personal experience. I collect the old "Thimble Drome" fuel cans and it was mainly methanol, with a little nitro thrown in IIRC. edit- Someone on the forum here tried turps and it leaves too much residue. Clogs things up.
A friend of mine ran out of fuel in his Karman-Ghia (VW) when he was out chasing rummage sales, and bought a can of Coleman fuel to get to a gas station. Car ran, but knocked so bad, sounded like a 'effing diesel! Murph
That was what I thought would happen from what I've read. A bit mixed in with a tank full of gas might not hurt too much, but my beaters are too valuable to me to risk burning up internals.
I have a sporting goods store near me that is selling Coleman fuel at $6.50 USD a gallon. Since i'm a bit low i think i'll stock up on about 10 gallons. lance
Coleman will get you fine to the next pump if you run out of gas due to poor planning, but have a can of Coleman in the car due to good planning! As for the price increases, it is dismaying, but mostly because we were able for decades to get the stuff for about $3.99 per gallon, up until just a couple of years ago. I used to speculate that Coleman subsidized the fuel to keep sales of its stoves going, because the stuff was unbelievable cheap, especially considering it was sold everywhere, and by the 1-gallon can, far cheaper than any tinned solvent, alcohol, or kerosene. And maybe I'm right, but the company no longer needs to subsidize the oldy moldy liquid fuel stoves. I use my own stoves for camping and hiking, and now and then to play around with. A can of Coleman fuel goes a long way; I usually buy one or two a year. Still a good price objectively, rather than sentimentally, speaking.....
I would be happy to burn white gas in the stoves for the rest of my days buuuutttttt.... its the $s that are the most important factor. Has anyone burned pure automobile gas in a stove until it clogged up? If so, what was the consistency of the clogging material and how did you clean it? If you used a solvent, what was it? I use Sea Foam in all my small engines such as on a lawn mower. Even in the carburetor there are great improvements since it dissolves the gas additive residues and also the varnish from the gas. A typical application of Sea Foam to an automobile is to find a vacuum hose on the intake of the manifold and suck enough Sea Foam directly into the engine until the engine dies. Wait 10-15 minutes then restart the engine. The huge plume of smoke from the exhaust is impressive but the carbon seems to magically disappear! Years ago, we did a similar treatment using pure water to remove the carbon from the valves and piston heads of auto motors. Touchy process but steam is an excellent cleaner. So far I haven't seen any big differences on the flame or burning time when I burn my mixture. Has anyone mixed 1/2 auto gas with 1/2 white gas? That would bring the price to about @2/3 of the white gas cost. 1 gallon of white gas $12 1 gallon of auto gas $ 3 Total $15 divided by 2 gallons = $7.50/gallon
I'm the first one in line for cheaper anything, but, you get what you pay for. How many gallons of stove fuel do you go through in a year? I have tried the auto gas routine. The generators were crammed with black crusty crud. Didn't see any difference in color or consistency to any of my old fleabay stoves that had who knows what for fuel over the last 50 or so years. There is just WAY more of it. In about 4 tankfuls, my Coleman 413 started running poorly. Pulled the generator and had a difficult time removing the spring. In just 4 tanks!! That's all the info I needed on that note. I cannot speak for the "Dual Fuel" models. I don't know what the difference in the generators is. I would imagine they are thinner walled to burn hotter, but don't know. I spend more on coffee than on Coleman fuel, so I just write it up to a justifiable expense. That is, until/if I find a bulk naphtha supplier that's cheaper. On engine treatment and fuel additives, I don't think they do anything but make you feel like your doing a good thing and sell more product. Just like the myth of the 3000 mile oil change. Today's fuel injected engines burn cleaner and are engineered better than ever. No flames yet. Hear me out. In 1975, a car with 60,000 miles on it was considered on it's last legs. If I don't get 200,000 out of my current vehicles, I'll be surprised. I know for a fact that many of these products actually shorten the life of engines and other components. Motor flush? Gimme a break...More engine wear in the 15 minute flush routine than 20,000 miles on "undiluted" oil. We all are entitled to our opinions. Many of which are based on advertising. However, the more studies I read, the more I disregard the miracle claims of the producers of these "snake oils". My 2 cents. Ranting complete. Mike
Mike, am more of a visual person so if my oil looks clean then fine. If looks darker than fresh oil I change the oil. Yes even today some gas stations like costco add ehtanol to their gas and bad idea since only after 2 years my catalytic converter went bad and that's a 2000$ replacement. Ron
White gas, also known as Coleman fuel, is straight gasoline, and has an octane rating of about 80. Most engines of today require at least 87 octane, so it's understandable that the Karmann Ghia engine was knocking. Continuing to run an engine under load while knocking is a great way to ruin it in short order.
I wouldn't use it in either a stove or lantern. Turpentine is distilled from pine pitch and leaves a gummy residue, sure to clog orifices and gas generators in short order.
Weighing in on the Dual Fuel stoves. They seem to last a little longer on unleaded than other non-Dual Fuel stoves, but do a lot better on Coleman Fuel (CF). A 533 I have ran perfectly with Coleman Fuel. I decided to try it on Unleaded Gasoline. Right from the start, it ran quite poorly with yellow flame tips and black soot on the burner and generator. It also smelled bad. I don't recommend running any stove on unleaded unless you absolutely have to, in a pinch. I wouldn't do it as a regular practice. I just about ruined the 533. I thought I was going to have to fork over some cash for a new generator (since these are impossible to clean). I finally put CF in it and a little carb cleaner in with the CF and ran a couple of tanks through and that cleared up the issues. It now burns nice and blue again. Whew! I did the same thing with an M-1950 and ran it for quite a long time on unleaded as an experiment. Probably 2 gallons of unleaded fuel. Pretty much the same thing. It lasted a lot longer than the 533 but again it was nothing but yellow flames at the end of the test and black soot all over and that dang smell. The M-19150 has a distinct advantage over the 533, you can tear it down easily and clean all the parts (which were really dirty) and you are back in business. Finally, I went back to CF and have had no issues with the M-1950 - no yellow flames, no soot, no carbon build-up and no smell. Unleaded is great in a pinch in an M-1950, but only then. I also did this with a duel fuel tank I own on a double burner Coleman 425E. Same thing there. It works ok at first and then over time, it gets really dirty and luckily can be torn down and cleaned. It didn't take me long to get back to CF. One other issue, is the black layer that appears on your nice aluminum and stainless pots and pans. Unleaded flames always leave carbon stains on your cookware. Takes a little extra elbow grease to clean them up. With CF none. With kerosene, a little, but not too bad. If you can't afford CF, then unleaded may be your only route. You just have to be used to cleaning things much sooner. The other alternative is kerosene. sam
Ron, OUCH! 2 large is a lot. I suggest a new gas station, and a new mechanic at that price. California Emissions......ugh a necessary evil I suppose but a PITA. All the gas around here has been 10 percent ethanol for at least 10 years and my only casualties have been on lawn equipment. The hoses and carb parts need replacing more often. Ron, I think that talking oil changes is a lot like talking religion or politics. People are going to believe what they want. And I'm not saying that changing your oil when you see a little color to it is going to hurt your engine. Just your wallet. I did a LOT of research when I bought a new car several years ago. The manual said to change the oil every 10,000 miles and filters every other oil change. I about flipped on that. Until I researched it. Now it's synthetic oil and filter for me every 8 or 9k miles. Works out well since the tires get rotated at the same time. 124K on it, and it runs as new. Knocking on the table now. If your running dino oil, 5-7k. I change my own btw. Saved enough for a few stoves over the years.
Sam, I agree with you 100 percent. Your findings are pretty much identical to mine. I like tinkering with stoves and don't have a problem pulling a straight generator to clean it. But I don't like doing that in the field. When I was using my 1950 a lot, I got really good at pulling the generator, unrolling the screen and burning off the yuckies. Fast and effective way to do it, I might add. I was stationed in Germany and we used Super Bleifrei from the local station. We learned fast not to burn MOGAS in lanterns and stoves. Its no fun pricking the generator on a Coleman 252 either. Don't blame Coleman for that one, the approved generator on that model(the inverted aluminum J) was Aladdin's. Anyone volunteer to sacrifice a standard, a kero, and a dual fuel generator so we can do a post mortem on them? I'm really curious now. Mike
... or try a propane conversion, if the stove can take it. My Coleman 424 Dual Fuel stove is now outfitted with a propane converter from Century Tool in place of the tank and generator, and I can run it on Coleman fuel, a disposable 1 lb propane cylinder, or by attaching a hose to the converter, from a bulk propane cylinder. I've never had to run it on unleaded motor fuel. On recent camping trips I've been taking Coleman fuel along as a backup and primarily cooking with propane, while saving the Coleman fuel for use in my Optimus backpacking stove. Propane burns cleanly and boils water nearly as fast as Coleman fuel does.
I have definitely used the propane route as well. Quite effective. But, you know, I really like the smell of Coleman Fuel in the morning!!! I mentioned kerosene above, what I meant is kerosene in a kerosene-capable stove. Most Coleman stoves, with the exception of a few can't burn kerosene, unless fitted with a special generator for that purpose. Sorry for the slight mislead there! sam
