Have fuel ... will fool (Trouble with a brass Phoebus)

Ok,

The Optimus #45 roarer burner (eBay purchase) burns quite well, a little yellow in the flame, but when a pot is placed on the trivet, this appears to disappear ...
For the moment, I'm not too worried about the yellow tinge, after all the stove was made to be used with something sitting on the trivet, no so I guess it's fine under normal working conditions. ;d
Now, my Phoebus #1 is a different story. Pump,pump, pump like a mad fool, but the flame only barely rises above the top of the burner. As soon as I stop pumping, the flame dies back down and eventually goes out
Hmmmm.
Definitely a problem. Any suggestion from you master fettlers. Since the Phoebus was my first 'real' stove, I'd like to get it running, but also, as I've said on more than one occasion. I'm basically cr%p at fettling, so I need your help .... big time.
Thanks in advance

Enjoy the Flame

Spudz

 

Spudz, sounds like you have a leak somewhere. You must have read here about putting the stove in water to spot where the leak is, so try that and somebody will have the seals you need I'm sure

 

Spudz, are you a Viz reader by any chance?

 

Spudz
I'd say the 45 has a slightly worn jet.
The combustion is not just about mixing oxygen with the fuel it's also about getting the exhaust gasses away as well.
When it's burning without a pot on it's slightly rich in fuel, put the pot on not all the oxygen gets away as exhaust hence the better flame.
You have 2 choices, change the jet or don't change the jet

The Pheobus is leaking somewhere. Give it the dunk test.

HTH
H

 

Is the jet on the 45 roarer the same as a No.5 ?

 

Yes Rik

I think it is.

Keith

 

Monday morning. and I'm back on-line.

Thanks for the advice guys and the pm's. I'll give the Phoebus a dunk later tonight, although I remember trying this before and the stove appeared to be airtight !

Regarding Viz, David ...... back in the early '90's I gave a copy of the comic to a young waitress in an Italian restaurant, in Ireland. She is now my wife !!!!
I'm not sure, was that a good thing

Did you ever get a coffee Moka David, 'cause I have a new 6 cup (thimble really) with your name on it .... send me your address.

Spudz

 

...depends how much you like pasta, Spudz!

Not much of a chat-up line I have to say - Er, excuse me Miss, would you like to read my comic?

Still, it appears to have worked...! 8) =D>

 

Bit better than "get your coat love, you've scored" I suppose

Mines half Italian Spudz so I know how you feel

 

Another good chat-up line using Viz could be:
"Hello luv, 'ave yeh ever read The Fat Slags?"

 

" "get your coat love, you've scored" "

Great line 'enry i shall have to try that one on Goodwife if she ever gets to thinking i'm not her style.

lance

 

Thanks for the sympathy Henry ... but only the restuarant was Italian ... the girl, now wife, is 100% red haired, West Cork, Irish. She was only working in the place.
I think due to the fact that we now live in Italy, there is a bit of confusion on the 'which one of us is Italian' side of things. It always happens ... no worries though, as we both enjoy a bowl of pasta and a glass or 3 of vino rosso.

And the actual chat up line used was:
"your too young to be going to pubs"
for which I received a slap in the face, as the girl was in fact old enough to ... well you get the idea.
Funny how, with the passing of time, a line complimenting the woman on her youthful looks, would get me a hug and a kiss , which is the same result, just without the slap in the face. .... Funny old world !

Spudz

 

Spudz
Some times the air leak in the stoves will leak all the air out before you can get it in the water.
This is a little harder to do, But put your stove in the water and pump with the pump tube out 8 or so times then push it under as well
Air leaks has to be above the fuel level or it would be leaking fuel.
The riser tube is full of fuel so it does not leak air. Unless it is leaking at the join of the riser tube and tank.

 

Hey, Spudz,

I LOVE those Irish red-heads!!! Sweet Bride has Irish in her background, as do I, and she has brunette hair, with deep red in it!! Stunning, really!! To me, Maureen O'Hara is still the archetypal Irish red-head, and both Sweet Bride and I love to watch "The Quiet Man", with her and John Wayne! One of our favorite movies. So, the rest of you Sods can have your blondes. Spudz and I have our pair of stunning red-heads!!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc Mark

 

Well, the good news is that the escaping air is coming from the pump assembly. Good, because I don't have to contemplate any soldering !
To be precise, the air escapes from the area where the pump rod passes through the pump assembly cap.
Which leads me to believe that the pump leather is the wrong size.
If the problem was the non return valve, would I not have fuel escaping back into the pump assembly
Since this is not the case, but just the air that is pumped into the stove returning back through the pump cap, then .... wrong size pump leather.

Any suggestions ?

I'll try swapping a pump leather from one of my Optimus #45 stoves, although I'm not certain that the bore of the pump is the same !
---------------------------------------------------------------


O.K. now this is interesting.
Swapped over the pump from a #45. Much tighter fit, and not a bubble of air escaped on doing a full immersion test. Better pump action too.

However it appears that I have a blocked burner, 'cause I couldn't get the stove to light, even with this new pump arrangement.
Any advice on how to remove the burner? here is a picture:



I previously tried to gently unscrew the burner, but noted the slightest movement where the riser tube is joined to the fount, so I gave up on it. The burner looks to be well 'cooked' with plenty of dirt on it. Whats the best for loosening the nut a bit, to aid the removal of the burner?

And finally, just to be sure, I tried the original pump from the Phoebus #1 in the Optimus #45. A loose fit! No pressure behind the pump at all, it moved quite freely in the pump cylinder!!

So, I need new pump leathers .... but what size/bore and I also need to clean the Phoebus #1 burner.

Thanks for all and any help

Enjoy the Flame
Spudz

 

Morning, Spudz,

It could be something as simple as the need for a pricker. Have you tried pricking, or cleaning the jet, without dissassembly of the stove? Give it a couple of good prickings and see if that helps things. Kero stoves can sometimes build up quite a bit of "gook" inside the burner, especially if the fuel is not good, clean stuff. This, then, tries to exit the stove through the only "hole" available, your jet!! Blockage is the common result. Without removing the burner, just prick your jet, and see if that helps. Keep your pricker nearby, too, as it sounds like you're going to need to do it a bit more. Good luck, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc Mark

 

Spudz
Hopefully, you will not have to remove the burner, but eventually you probably will need too... From the picture, it appears that the tube is soldered to the tank, hence your problem removing the burner, for their is no other hex to grip, and of course stripping the tube from the tank is undesirable... Try, very carefully to grip the pipe with a pipe wrench or locking pliers, but pad the jaws with leather to aviod marring the brass. Excersize extreme caution when applying pressure with these tools, even though the leather will prevent gouging, the pipe will still be subject to being flattened out from the pressure. When you do succeed in gripping the pipe in a secure and clean fashion, then use your stoves wrench to undo the burner... of course once again being careful that pressure and slippage do not result in damage to the brass tube...
As for the conversation about the hair colours of ladies... They all are beautiful, but what really makes a woman is what exist between her ears and under that beautiful bounty of red, blond or brown hair...
New Camper

 

Doc if i didn't know you better, i'd suggest you have a dirty mind. All that pricking and gook and such.

 

New Camper,

You, Sir, are a man after my own heart!! The contents of a woman's mind and heart are MUCH more important, than the color of her hair, or anything else. Of course, I happen to be one of the luckiest Chaps in the world, as my Sweet Bride has a fine mind, a wonderful heart, and is a darned good-looking Lass, too!!! YIPPEE!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc Mark

 

If the non-return valve is not closing, then, yes, in normal use you would get fuel coming from the pump spindle hole - but only if the valve is below fuel level. If the pump is positioned horizontally (which it appears to be on your stove), then the valve may always be above fuel level so only air will leak out, not fuel.

When you first dunk a stove (or lantern), there will usually be some escape of air around the pump spindle. That's just the air in the pump tube. Once that's all escaped, a steady stream of bubbles is evidence of a failed check valve.

Spudz, ask yourself how air fills the pump tube when you pull the knob out. A lot of people think it goes round the edge between the leather and the tube wall. It doesn't. It goes through the hole in the centre of the leather - that's why it's a loose fit (or should be!) on the pump spindle. The point is, even if your pump leather is the correct size, air leaking from the tank through a failed pump valve can get through the centre hole - to appear as that little stream of bubbles which strikes dread into my heart...