I'm new to old stoves, found this little beast in an attic at the camp I work at. I've taken it apart, scrubbed it, and in the process a small leather o-ring fell out and disintegrated, the pump leather following suit. I've remade the pump leather, and it seems to make a good seal, giving a good *pop!* when I pull it out, but I still can't get any pressure built up in the stove. Valve is closed, I made a new o-ring and put it where I think it goes, on the big copper nut connecting the fuel tank to the burner assembly. This may be incorrect placement... I did a submerged test to figure out where the pressure was leaking from, and the only leak was the pump tube, which has started leaking fuel since the test. I assume the NRV is broken, stuck in the open position, as there isn't back pressure on the pump when I use it. I made a tool to fish out the NRV, and now don't know what to do. Replace it? Fix it somehow? The rubber on the fuel cap is still in excellent shape, but is there anything else I should be replacing if I'm replacing the NRV? I'm stateside, where can I buy NRV's if I need one?
UPDATE: I got the little devil opened up, stretched the spring out a bit, the rubber was again still in good condition, so I closed it up and reinstalled it. Still no pressure buildup... Filled the stove with K1 before I knew it was a white gas stove, could that be contributing to the problem?? or is it just that my leather cup isn't good enough? basically, I've tried everything I can think of on this stove, and still can't get any pressure build-up...
Hello andy1313, if you could post pictures of the pump cup and the stove so we can see what the problem may be. So you are saying there is no pressure build up? or the pump is not getting to pressurize the tank? Ron
I don't really know what to take pics of, there is zero pressure build-up, besides the popping sound when I pull out the pump shaft. I'll just take some random pics I guess, back in a few
Don't mind the one above, it didn't work... The nut in the middle of the burner seems to be stuck, i think the cleaning needle is underneath it??? anyway, here's a few nice pictures for you in the know. Full stove, assembled Close up of the pump leather I may or may not have made well Another view of the full stove, slightly taken apart.
Hi Andy, Have you removed the fuel cap and put your thumb over the opening while pumping it? That will tell you if the pump is making air. If it is not, either your spring is too firm in the NRV or the opening in the NRV is blocked. While you have the NRV out and apart also check the rubber pip in the NRV to make sure its pliable. Take your fingernail or the corner of a flat bladed screwdriver and see if you can make a small impression in the rubber. If not, then the rubber is hard and will not seal properly. As far as the nut in the center of the burner, that is the jet and the little wrench that is attached to the case will remove the jet using the closed end of the wrench. If its super tight, you might have to use a little heat from a propane torch on it prior to backing it off. Be careful though and make sure the tank is drained first. Good luck!
zero pressure being produced, no back pressure either, leading me to believe the pump leather is the problem? I'll try the nut in a few minutes.
Andy, I am not quite clear about where you put the o-ring. But, it sure sounds to me like you may have put it where it is not needed. BWT, it is exceedingly unlikely that the kerosene hurt anything. dday had good advice. Sure sounds like either the pump is not pumping, or is the check valve is not holding? If you feel resistance when pumping, your leather cup is probably working fine -- but do the tumb over the filler hole trick, it is an easy test. When you removed the NRV, was there a lead gasket? Apparently some are installed with out one and, if so, it will be very hard to get a good seal. If it was me, I would not fool around removing the jet and cleaning needle at this time. When you get the pump working, you should be able to pressurized the empty tank and then open the valve and hear some air hissing. If that all works, then I would add some fuel and try lighting it. But the first time you pump it a few strokes with fuel in it, wait a couple minutes before striking a match and make sure the pump handle stays down and the NRV is holding properly. edit: OK, just saw your diagnosis.
It's well oiled, I think the leather's probably too thin though, it was only 1mm, and now that I'm looking around I'm seeing 2mm is what is the norm on this... got the middle nut loose though, so that's progress
I didn't come across a lead gasket, but there's a strong possibility it just stayed in the bottom of the pump tube if it was there, I didn't check...
Hi, Andy, Welcome to CCS! Congrats on saving that old 111B! One word of strong caution, however: PLEASE replace the NRV with a brand new pip, and also the fuel cap gasket. No matter how good them might look, the 111B is old enough that those parts are going to be too hard to work as they should. Since Coleman Fuel, the proper fuel for your stove, is SO volatile, having a leaking NRV, or fuel cap, is a recipe for disaster, pure and simple, Sir!!! Please do not take a chance, and learn more about your stove, and proper servicing of these vital and necessary parts, before playing with it much more!! Too bad we couldn't have met up earlier this month, as I was working in Wisconsin, and could have shown you the proper way to go about these tasks. In any case, once you get these important parts replaced, your stove will be safe, reliable, and very easy to use. Not replacing those parts, on a stove as old as yours, is dangerous, and more hazardous then you can imagine!! Check in the fettling section for more info on going about doing what MUST be done on your old 111B before you use it, and you will be a safe and happy man!! I have several of those great 111B stoves, and they are outstanding. Just need a bit more care in using them, to insure your safety, and the safety of others. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Alright, so seems like I need to buy the replacement cap, NRV, and cup leather. Anyone know of a good place in the US to order said parts, and any advice on them?
Hey, Andy, Now, you're on the right track, and one that will bring you much satisfaction, and very safely! Again, check the "fettling" section here at CCS, and you will learn everything you need to know about replacing the things that are necessary for the safe use of this great stove. No need to replace the fuel cap, as you can get Nitrile material from several CCS members, for a very inexpensive price. Ditto the NRV pip, though you will need to purchase a special wrench to get the NRV assembly out of the pump tube. Used ones from Optimus come up in the bay of evil all the time. But, you might consider having Stu, from the UK, make you a set of his very special and outstanding NRV wrenches!! IF you plan on acquiring other vintage stoves from Sweden, the UK, and many other places, you will be very glad you got the stellar set of wrenches from Stu! Many of us here at CCS have bought them from him, and they are worth every penny he charges, as no other wrenches I've ever seen can compare to the ones Stu makes!! As to the pump leather, again, do yourself a favor, and get yours from CCS member "Sefa". He makes fantastic pump leathers, and sells them on ebay for a very good price. He lives in Turkey, and his shipping is very fast, and inexpensive!! He leathers are even better than original ones, and quite a few CCS members love his work, me included!! I buy ALL of my leathers from Sefa, and guarantee you will be happy with is work!! So, there you go, Andy! Lots of info, and as you can see, your "plight" is not that bad. You will be glad you undertook this simple stuff, once your stove is working like a champ, and safely!! Where do you live in Wisconsin? We have members quite a few members around you, and maybe they can offer help, in person, depending on where you live. Also, there is an Eastern Stove Gathering, about which you can find information in the "Events and Meets" section here at CCS. If you like camping, working on stoves, sharing the outdoors with other like-minded folks, you might consider planning to attend that Gathering this year. I've been to all of the ones we've had out West, and will be heading to Oregon for the very first Gathering up there, in September. So, see? Lots of options for you, and the cost of doing it right is not that high, even with some of Stu's outstanding wrenches, Sefa's wonderful pump leathers, and a small sheet of Nitrile rubber, or similar material, from which to make a new fuel cap gasket! Good luck, and keep us posted as to how things are going on this neat project! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Since Andy has asked about parts dealers in the US, and no one has responded to that question, I have to ask: are A&H no longer in business? The website is still up -- packstoves.net -- it's been almost a year since I last did business with them so I don't know. Been such a valuable resource, I hope they are still at it.
They are still in business but somehow the website is no longer working for unknown reason. They do business also through Ebay selling parts. Ron
Thanks, Ron. I usually just called instead of using the website anyway. The number is on the website.
Found a kit with seals and an NRV included, ordered it up, snail mail delivered today, so I replaced all the seals, and now have a fully functioning, kickass stove, thanks to everyone that helped out!
