My 1980s 111T has just been refurbished with a leather pump rather than the o-ring, new cap washer,new pips on the NRV, new valve piece and new graphite packing. Stove has been completely dismantled and cleaned. It lights and burns, but with the area of the burner with the holes red hot. It seems (Seems!) to me that the gas bubbles burning on the outside should be fatter and further away from the holes. When it starts, they are blue and fat, but after, say, five minutes the burning blue bubbles get smaller as the cap gets redder. The top of the cap never gets red hot, and if I turn down the stove, they get bigger again. Here are a couple of shots albeit not as clear as I would like and a little yellower in real life. Does this look normal to you?
Welcome to the forum Barneycanoe, that flame is quite normal with some yellowish tips. It will become a bit more blue when a pot sits on top of it. Note that the 111T has a cleaning needle and turning it counter clockwise all the way will reduce the fuel out or totally plug the hole. The cap top should not get red hot. Seeing that would mean you have an underburn. Ron
I only have one silent burner but this does glow red in the dark. In daylight it doesnt glow at all. The flames are invisible in direct sunlight but there is a halo of pale yellow visible at night.
Perhaps you are losing pressure some where. When you pump is it easy or is there a lot of resistance? Have you adjusted the cleaning needle? Did you de-carbon the burner? Cheers, Jeff
Yes to Jeff's questions. Using white gas, filtered. I wouldn't be able to see the red out of doors, this is in my garage. Pumping is not as good as with the o-ring, takes maybe twice the pumps with the leather to build up the same pressure, but it's a lot better to pump (smoother). I'm probably being too particular, but it bothers me that the initial burn is robust and then the flames get smaller as the thing heats up. Cheers Dave
Restrictor removed that is used for alcohol? I have no idea how it would act on gas. I have yet to try my 111T with a alky jet and the restrictor which I have both of. Duane
Humm Strange. I wonder if your losing pressure out of your safety release valve. Do you have another Optimus cap? How tight is the jam nut on the valve by the way? Jeff
Pump it up and dunk it in water... The bubbles will guide you... The Bubbles! Bwahahaha Seriously, give the dunk test a try, you're losing pressure somewhere.
the jam nut on the stuffing box? Pretty tight, it has brand new packing so I didn't want to jam (pun) it in too tight. I will try the dunk test, good suggestion. I will let you know. Dave
I just had a similar problem with my Pr100 with an alky burner, though more dramatic: flame started off fine, then the cap began to heat up, the flame faded, deteriorated, and it went into underburn. I cleaned the caps for all I was worth --even spun them up on the wood lathe and used the steel wool on them for a polish. Then I chucked the burner and spun it up too, to polish the seat where the caps rest. That was probably overkill... I pulled out the cleaning needle and set it aside for the test. It isn't needed to run the stove, it's just handy for cleaning. (Much less critical on an alky than on a white gas stove, admittedly, but for test purposes, it might be interesting to see what happens.) Most important, I suspect, I swapped out the old jet, even though it looked fine, with a new, known-to-be-good jet. On the first burn test after that, it ran much better. It acted a little off at first, but when I tapped the side of the stove, I got a few sparks and it settled down, so I figure it's working crud through its system and the caps are settling into place properly. It runs pretty darn good, now. Scrub the caps, pull the cleaning needle, swap in a new jet, and see what happens. Alex
Here is the best I can get out of it - nine minutes to boil 1L in protected garage with temp about 50F.
Seeing that there is no leak on it and the pump assembly and spindle works fine, the last thing to do is really to reseat the cleaning needle. Out of the factory, not all needles are seated properly. You may as one suggested, remove first the cleaning needle and see if it will run properly. If it does not, then the burner may have some crud eventually blocking the jet hole after some time. Its not too difficult to reseat the jet. Just do a search on the forum. How many pump strokes do you do anyway? Hope this helps.
About 20 pumps with leather washer. I have tried with/without cleaning needle and it makes no difference. I am using 4 clicks on the cleaning needle (down). Dave
Nine minutes to boil 1L of water does not sound too bad on the face of it. But in a protected garage & not outside subject to any breezes it is a matter for some concern. Do you mind more fettling? Empty the stove tank & remove the burner. Dismantle the burner completely, everything out. Go to your nearest stove and purchase a big bottle of vineagar. Find a suitable non-food vessel that will just hold the burner. Completely fill the burner with vineagar, allowing any air bubbles to escape. Put the burner in the vessel and fill said vessel until the burner is completely submerged. Leave for 24 hours. Lift burner out, empty it of vineagar. Forcibly wash it out to urge any debris to exit the burner. Re-fill with vineagar & put it back in the vessel for another 24 hours. Empty & wash out as before. Repeat again if there is still crud coming out of the burner. The vineagar is a very mild cleaning agent & I have used this on several stoves with great success. If you have made a full overhaul of the rest of the stove you should not miss scouring out the internal passages of the burner. Re-assemble the burner. You could dunk the burner cap in the vineagar for a day if you want as well. Re-assemble the stove & photograph it! You will never see a 111T looking so clean, unless you have a unused specimen. Test stove again. The vineagar treatment will have done no harm whatsoever. I have treated several burners this way & I transformed the behaviour of a AIDA roarer, Optimus 111 roarer, 111T and also burners from white gas stoves like a Optimus 8R and SVEA 123R.
Hi Neat vinegar and 24hrs, bit excessive IMHO. Your burner will be pinker than Barbie's car. I'd be conservative first off. If you can blow through the burner with the nipple removed, with little or no resistence then a blocked burner isn't the problem.
Good suggestions from both of you. More fettling not a problem. I think I'll try blowing through it first. A bit more history, this stove was our main stove for about ten years of canoe camping with my wife and four kids. Then I had problems with the nrv valve and got an optimus nova and then the optimus omnifuel. Recently got interested in my old swedish stoves again so have been cleaning them up - an 8R that works better now than it ever has, and my old 71L which still works like new. So the 111T, I realize now, should have had more care over the years. I will get it back to spec, somehow. Dave
Have ordered new inner and outer caps. Am getting some burn under outer cap at the bottom. may be just worn. New nipple as well... That should help. Dave
This is kind of embarassing...I bought some new Coleman Fuel here in Canada and have fixed my stove, without the parts that are currently winging their way over from the U.K. Not sure what happened to the fuel as it worked fine on a trip this year up to Lake Superior. Perhaps decanting it in and out of the fuel bottle reduced it's effectiveness. The area with the holes does not turn red now, even after a number of minutes. Something else I'll have to put on my checklist! See picture, boiled a liter in 6.5 mins last night.
