I have a 20 year old Force 10 (Canadian) stove on my boat which I use daily. I burn out a "flame spreader" (outer cap) every 3 months using mineral spirits as fuel. The burners are PATRIA #94305 from Portugal. They are the type with 2 flat spots on the rim that have to aline with 2 retaining tangs on the burner body before the cap can be removed. Are replacements available? (I would like to buy a couple of dozen if possible.) Is there a substitute cap that will fit? I am located in North America, but don't think a supplier exists on this side of the Atlantic. Thanks all... Bry
Hi Bry, welcome to CCS! Even when used intensively, I would say 3 months per cap is not so good... Perhaps there is another problem? Does your stove have underburn? (instead of a 'hiss' there is more of a loud purr, and the outer cap gets red hot). I guess your stove was designed to run on kerosene, is this the fuel you use but under a different name? Outer "regular" caps can still be found, some are still made in India (eg. Prabhat) but I'm not sure if they'll fit your burners. I'm sure someone else on the forum can tell! Best regards, Wim
I think I got one of these caps from A&H pack stoves recently. If you order, I would advise getting a new inner cap to match it. From memory these are slightly larger than other caps, at least it did not fit a 111c. Dan
Thanks for getting back to me, Wim: Underburn is new to me! Yes the outer cap gets red hot when I turn the heat up. It is hard to get clean, clear kerosene while sailing in the islands. It is quite yellow with a lot of carbon and clogs the burners. So I use mineral spirts... paint thinner. I'm not sure if this burns hotter. Would be interested in the cause and cure for underburn. Again, Thank you. Bry
Thanks, Yellowdog... Looks like they charge $19 US dollars for a set of inner and outer caps. A little rich for me but I'll contact them and see if I can get a discount if I buy 20 of them. Thanks for the tip. Bry
First of all, let me welcome you to CCS. second, you have a problem, and it is not the caps. Buy the way, Stuga-Cabana has patria style caps (http://www.hytta.de/)for euro 3.50. You have underburn! That is when the flame jumps from the cap to the mixing tube under the cap. This creates a blow torch effect under the cap. Quickly burning out the cap. First reason, the fuel your using is not up to the task. It vaporizes at to low a temp. & is to volitile when in vapor. Making it easy for the flame to jump under the cap. Use K-1 Kerosene! Yellow kerosene is a indication of age and exposure to air. Kerosene should be kept in a metal air tite can.
That sounds good, Yellowdog but it would appear I have a fuel problem causing "underburn" ...stay tuned! Bry
Thanks for joining in, Dspearsy2k... Had this stove for 20 years and never heard of "underburn" ...always something new to learn! Thankyou for the contact information for Stuga-Cabana but if I can solve the underburn problem, I may not need new caps. I have 8 complete burners in my stores plus 2 more outer caps. When I bought the stove I purchased 12 spare burners and a bunch of repair kits... sure glad I did. They were cheap back then! I sounds as if underburn is caused by burning the mineral spirits I'm using, which I believe is just a more refined kerosene... as is the jet fuel I understand some people use in their stoves. I started using mineral spirits when I was in Guatamala in 1993. The kerosene in Centeral America was of such poor quality, it wouldn't even burn in a wick style oil lamp. The wick would gum up after a few minutes and the flame would go out. This was clean kerosene but very yellowish which I was told, was due to carbon in the fuel. Anyway burning it in the stove caused the burners to clog almost daily. A fellow boater suggested mineral spirits and life was good again and I have used nothing else in the stove and in my oil lamps for years. I am in the Dominican Republic currently and K-1 Kerosine is just a dream. The stuff they sell here is pretty much what was available in Guatamala. Besides being yellow, there is stuff floating around in it! Anyway, if you believe this to be a fuel problem... it stands to reason that what I am being sold here in the DR is not mineral spirits but something more volitile. Agreed? And the higher combustion rate is burning up my burners. As an aside to this: just yesterday, the solder joint on one of my burners seems to have been compromised and is leaking raw fuel. On the positive side, the old stove still makes a damn fine pot of coffee in the morning... double quick too!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for all the help... Bry
Would filtering the dirty kerosene then producing a mix of this filtered crappy Kerosene he has available with mineral spirits help in this situation? Not advocating anything just asking...
A red hot outer cap and a roaring noise - why does this not ring a bell? And volatile fuel on a boat is foolish in my book; you seem to accept a lot of things that should not happen even on land. Most yellowish kerosene works fine in any kerosene stove and lamp, and filtering suspect fuel saves you clogged jets. Mineral spirits - I have a sneaking suspicion you use it too for priming - pose a fire risk as any leaking will likely introduce a rapidly expanding fire in your galley. Kerosene / paraffin does not ignite as a liquid and therefore is the only acceptable fuel aboard; it will need alcohol for priming with your stove. Leakage can occur anytime when a no-return valve decides to return instead, spilling fuel along the protuding pumprod. With dirt in your fuel you can wait for it to happen. On a boat at sea (!) you are taking unacceptable risks. I also wonder how can you stand the irritating noice of an underburning stove - it is the same as a flapping sail to me. Take care! Mike Meijer, Netherlands P.S. Patria's are excellent copies of the regulated swedish burners, and hence have the size 5 inner- and outer caps.
My I jump back in? Your use of spares sounds rather high. I've a Galley Gourmet 3-burner with oven manufactued in 1979. I also have a cozy-cabin heater, same vintage. I've used lots of heat poof washers, one spare burner (my fault, pinched tube on removal) and 3 or 4 graphite seals. Don't throw away the damaged burner. I've only seen one burner in 30 yrs. that could not be salvaged. Low odor mineral spirits is great for wick lamps, as it does not char the wick. It is not good for pressure lamps or stoves. Same problem, burning in the mixing chamber. If you had a newer primus 207b burner with the holes in the inner cap and mixing tube, you could not keep the burner lit. Every time it jumped to underburn, it would self extinguish, leaving you with fuel vapor in the cabin. Yellow kerosene has 2 causes, age w/eposure to air, and poorly refined to start with, high sulfur and excess oil. No. 2 diesel fuel is a 5% mix of 30wt. lube oil & kerosene (1:20). Don't use diesel, the extra oil clogs burners extremely fast. A gallon of kerosene should last about 16 hours at full tilt, so the extra effort is worth it. JET A, JET A_1, and JP-4 are all highly refind Kerosenes. I scored 5 gallons AT THE airport in Fiji in 1979, that lasted 3 years.
Thank you for your concern, Dutchmike. But mineral spirits is just refined kerosene and you can throw a match in a bucket of it and nothing will happen. And it does not work for priming a burner. My hope is that it is indeed mineral spirits that I am being sold here in the Dominican Republic. I must say I'm not noticing any "roaring noise" from the burner. And the fuel seems to be burning normally in both stove and oil lamps. But I keep burning up the outer caps. Thanks, Bry
Boy, lots of good information here, dspearsy2k... I guess the bottom line is I should not be using mineral spirits in the stove. Of course I may not have a choice here in the DR. What strikes me funny is I always thought of these simple utensiles as a 3rd world solution to cooking the evening meal. But it seems you need 1st world fuel to burn in them. What do those poor folks in India do??? Thank you for your advice. Bry
Remmber, at the begining of last century, the kerosene available was not much better than what you get in the Carribean. These burners were never ment to be maintence free. Excess Coking was cleaned from the burners by Heat & Quench (method found else where on forum). In emergent cultures, there can usally be found a handy-man who works for pennies or trade to maintane local stove & lamps. I have done same on some islands & atolls in the pacific. First world fuel just makes life easier.
Thanks again,dspearsy2k. I found a part container of the fuel they have been selling me here in the DR. Stuff is called AGUARRAS which they assured me was mineral spirits when I bought it 5 months ago. But who knows? Comes in one-gallon, plastic containers costing about $5. Can anyone translate AGUARRAS? Thanks all... Bry
I think it's called turpentine in English (we call it terpentijn ). Not suitable for stoves if you ask me... Best regards, Wim
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turpentine_substitute I wouldn't use this in a lamp or pressure stove unless I was really desperate. Best Regards, Kerophile.
