Why did MSR move from metal pump to plastic?

Hello all,

I have an old yellow MSR pump that has a metal plunger. It works fine and is really simple to maintain once you read the manual.

I was just curious as to why the metal plunger was eliminated in favor or an all plastic, piece of $hit plunger???

 

You're good with the stove pub quiz questions, XGKIG.

I know this, I know this ...

Nope, it'll have to be a guess.

Saving cost and weight?

John

 

Are you testing us xgkisgod?
Duane

 

Or do you WORK for MSR?

Murph

 

Greetings,

I will once again, and a bit more strongly, recommend that you use the outstanding Reference Section, and the "search" function here at CCS, to find the answers you are seeking. The answers to the myriad questions you continue to ask, have already been covered, and posted in great detail, and are just waiting for you to spend the time to find them on your own.
Have fun in your research, and God Bless!!

Sincerely,
Doc

 

I think its a good question.

Why is it 2012 and they still can't make a half decent pump? Is one question I would add to your question.

I think the best answer to your question would be why not.

Did you break your pump? Or are you talking about the older styles of MSR pumps? The tabs are famous for breaking on those older pumps. One great thing about MSR is their customer service. Send them a message.

About the metal plunger. You would have to ask REI They bought MSR in 1981 and are the ones that played around with pumps in the 80's 90's Cascade Designs has owned MSR since 2001. REI will just look at you funny I believe. And we could get into that REI shifted its focus from climbers, mountaineering and backpackers to more family camping. And clothing and all that neato stuff people think they need to camp. But that's not all to blame. Sure we could blame a board of directors but that's too easy.

Was the move towards plastic from metal to save weight or cost? I don't know about that. It most likely had to do with the fact that most of the pump was plastic so why not make the shaft plastic.

I don't think anyone took the time to really look at the pump and system as a whole. It was flawed and its clear that other companies have far better, safer, more reliable pumps.
It's a shame and bugs me because the stoves are great. Just not the pumps or connection IMHO.

Jeff

 

the pump is the entire reason i went with a nova over a whisperlite/dragonfly

i mean how hard is it to make a pump out of metal all the others do it already

 

Interesting points Jeff.
I lived in Seattle in the late 70's when REI was just one store and still a real co-op located between Pike and Pine streets (if I remember correctly, been a long time). What a great place to go and wander around and drool over equipment I could not afford. Then in the early 80's it changed -- as I heard it they hired a new manager or CEO type who had learned the trade at Sears and things were never the same. You used to walk into the store and the first thing you saw (and smelled) was boots and climbing gear -- after that change in management you were confronted with jogging bras and pink ski caps. You had to go into the remote corners up or down stairs to find the good stuff.

We now have an REI in Durham NC for God's sake. I feel bad just going there. I think the camping stoves are a total afterthought. The sales people have never heard of crampons or sno-seal, and they want to give me advice. I want to punch the little $hits in the mug when they start yapping about what I should be buying instead of what I want.

Breath, exhale.

 

Good Evening, Gentlemen,

It appears that at least a few others wish to know more about the MSR pumps, so I will offer some info here about that, hopefully tomorrow, complete with photos and approximate dates of release by MSR. I'll say one thing now, however: I consider the current pumps designed and offered by MSR to be very good, indeed, and have only a few very minor quibbles with them. Others can, of course, and I guess, obviously, do not agree, and that is there choice. More about all this, tomorrow, or soon thereafter. I hope that what I will be posting can be made into a "sticky", or placed somewhere it can be easily found and read, for any and all future questions about this topic. I'll ask Spiritburner, and see what he thinks. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. MSR DID offer a few pumps that were far less than they should have been, and I've been a very vocal critic of those poor ones in the past. But, credit must certainly be given to MSR for hearing the howls of angst of many MSR stove users, and finally coming up with a very good solution.

 

Yes, itchy, I do think you remember correctly (or, at least, our memories are equally hazy...). In '79 I was bumming around the provinces and states with a pack on my back, and by the time I got to Seattle it was the same weekend as the annual blowout. Back then the Seattle store was the ONLY one, and previously I had only ever gazed longingly at REI gear from the mail order catalogs... Man, going into that store was like a making a pilgrimage -- the smell of the gear was totally overwhelming. You are totally right about that. And dang did the guys who worked there know their stuff! (Got a pair of used Vasque's, as I recall, for the trek down the coast through the redwoods - anyone remember a dive called "Paul's Salmon Cannery" in southern Oregon/Northern California? Spent a day getting totally schnokered there, having wandered off the trail I was trying to follow along the coast....).

I remember getting the REI directors election material one year touting the Sears connection of the CEO candidate. I was a poor student at the time and wasn't quite sure what to make of it, whether it was good or bad. It wasn't until a few years later when Sears started going south a bit, and REI seemed more into clothes than "real" gear, that I started to make the connection that maybe that wasn't the smartest move (from a purist's perspective at least).

So yeah, it ain't the same place now as it was then. But nuthin' is, I reckon. Still, around here (Maryland/DC area) the local REIs tend to have folks who actually step out onto the trail moreso than other places, at least until you get a little west of here and closer to the AT.

PS- I do think it's a little funny when I give them my 6-digit membership number at the checkout, they tell me it's not enough numbers. There's a little "whoa, dude" moment when that happens -- gotta love it.

 

REI just ain't what it used to be. To me, it has totally gone down to the dogs. Their items are way way expensive and overpriced. The atttendants don't know shit, atleast most of them.
People flock to the store like there is no tomorrow.

 

It's the same with LL Bean, used to be a canoe/snowshoe/camping store, now It's all Womens clothing and shoes...

 

Nah, LL Bean has some good men's slacks and shirts, too!

 

Not much camping gear, tho...

 

Eddie Bauer used to be THE NAME in mountaineering down gear. They went the way of "Street hiking" clothes.
I know they recently have tried to bring that back with some 'real mountaineers' designing clothes, but .....

Ken

 

The first time I went to LL Beans, my father took me on a family trip. He had been there in the '30s, a pilgrimage too, I guess. In 1960, you still had to climb the three story exterior wooden stairs to the retail store. The items were in wooden boxes on large wooden tables: mittens, wool hats, hunting pants, boots and many, many other items. The last time I can remember seeing the old store was in '67, when I went there with a friend.

I made a pilgrimage to REI in '73. I had been a member for several years, and it was like going to Mecca. It blew me away to see all that stuff, the things I'd only seen in those fuzzy photos in the catalog, in one place; half a huge floor full of set up tents.

We've lost quite a bit, with Bean's, REI, Eddie Bauer, even North Face and others becoming essentially Yuppy clothing purvayors.

Paul

 

Ya, when I was stationed in Maine, the only place open on sundays was Bean.
Bored? Lets run over to Freeport! Look at all the stuff we couldn't afford...

 

I read on an article here that REI tried to cut costs whereever they could-- As a result, they totally F'ed up the pump ---

Look at North Face --- at one time it was a premier mountain climbing supplier - now, it is a fad ---Even the homeless and the janitors are all wearing North Face clothing.

 

Baja:

Yes, that was another interesting thing about LL Bean's; it was open 24 / 7. If you wanted to do your Christmas shopping at 03:00 on December 25th, the store was always open. I think that's been true for the whole time they've been in business.

Paul

 

about the only place that we have left is bass pro and its starting to go to more clothing

i went to my local mom and pop "outdoors" shop and asked if they had a trangia ... they looked at me like i was on crack then they pointed me to the only "stove" they had a pocket rocket