Can anybody explain how to make one functioning stove from two stoves with different problems? I have two Coleman Peak1 400A stoves (see picture), one is date stamped 11 86, the other 3 87. One has a hole in the fuel tank (see picture), the other has a leak in the pressure system (see picture, it is not the plunger, this works fine). I would like to combine the two to make a working stove rather than buying a new one.
Can you tell if the leak is in the check valve or around the CV where it threads into the pump tube? My simplisitic approach would be to swap the CV's to start. If it leaks with the new CV, you have a leak at the threads around the CV.
I think the leak is either in the CV or the thread. There is a slot in which a big screwdriver fits but it will not budge on either model. My preference would be to take the two stoves completely apart, select the best looking parts and keep the rest for spares. It would also be a usefull exercise in maintanance. My worry is that I might cause irreperable damage if I try things without knowing what I am doing.
Start with the one with the hole in the tank. Nothing to lose. I managed to get a replacement tank for my 422 and from memory it came with a new check valve but I had to use everything else.
The cv leak may be just a stuck ball have a look here for some ideas http://colemancollectorsforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/check-valve-removal-5159777 http://colemancollectorsforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Stuck-check-valve-3673815 http://colemancollectorsforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/broken-check-valve-3245730 for the rest http://colemancollectorsforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Project-400-4940241 Please note that the F/A tube on the 400A is different (plastic)
Thanks for the tips. I feel a little stupid. When I store my motorcycle for the winter I generally tidy it up, conserve the moving parts with oil and attach the battery to a drop charger. I should take more care of my stove. I will do it with my 414 stove. Could somebody post a picture of the valve control removal tool please? I have never seen one and could probably make one myself. In one of the mentioned posts somebody related that trying to remove the CV resulted in breaking it (it is after all brass) as the torque is tremendous. I am currently soaking the stove (with the hole in the fueltank) in WD40. If that does not work I will probably try Penzoil penetrating oil. If that does not work diesel sometimes does the trick. Should none of that work I will try carb cleaner. Does anybody know if the VC is cold fitted or has a sealing agent been added to the threads? Great pictures of the restoration job. Pity that the VC was not removed (or shown), that would have been a great help.
A 50/50 mix of Dexron ATF and acetone has had great results here in the past but its not good for the paint
Merlinos has sent me some very useful links to the Coleman Collectors Forum. There are a few things that might be useful to know: - It seems that Coleman has started to use a sealing agent on the check valve since the seventies. This probably why a new fount comes equipped with an installed check valve. - You can break the check valve if you do not dislodge it properly - You can use heat to loosen the check valve - A pop is heard when undoing the check valve This got me thinking. I build golfclubs as a hobby. To bond a shaft and a club head together you can use either an epoxy resin (which has been activated) or a cyanoacrylate glue. I think Coleman has used a cyanoacrylate glue to hold the check valve in place. In that case it is not a sealing agent but a locking agent. Cyanoacrylate glue has a weak shearing resistance but on a thread the surface area is enormous, one of the reasons why Loctite works. Cyanoacrylate does not like acetone or heat, so I will try those in that order. In the mean time I will try to build a valve extraction tool. Should I be succesful I will post some pictures. Thanks for all the help so far. It is interesting to see that it has come from all around the world.
Thanks for the info, JHVW, I have two Coleman stoves with leaky check valves that I cannot remove. I will watch for your success story, when it comes, and copy the method. Yonadav
Currently soaking the pump tube in acetone. In a different post somebody seems te be having the same problem on a different stove model: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/21609 There are some useful pictures of a check valve extractor tool. So if you are in a rush that is another place to go. Seems everybody is very fond of carb cleaner and brake cleaning fluid. These are very aggressive, dissolve the paint on the stove and are (people forget this) very hygroscopic. Should acetone and heat not work, I'll give those a go. But first I will make a check valve extraction tool (unfortunately these cannot be bought in the Netherlands, or at least I could not find a supplier, not even second hand). If you are really brave, take a look at this video: [media=youtube]99VQnga4oVU[/media]
No bravery in that wery detailed youtube, just the percussion screwdriver. When you give it a hammer blow on the handle, it makes two things: applying an sudden pressure, it prevents the blade from shifting out from the slot and compressing the screw in the treads, it reduces the friction. Of corse it also turns, and the combined action generally brakes the sealant at the first blow. Orsoorso
Brass is a delicate material. Using an impact driver can be useful at times but I believe this is called "might makes right". I prefer a more balanced approach, some damage cannot be repaired. I have an impact driver, it is a usefull tool in certain circumstances, it will not fit in the pump tube, which is probably just as well as I have broken parts on my motorcycle with it. At the moment I am making a check valve extraction tool from a brass punch. On this forum it is suggested that tapping the handle of the tool with a hammer will have the same result as using an impact driver but in my mind it is a little more subtle. I will leave might for the moment nothing else seems to work.
From a brass punch I made a check valve removal tool by filing down the end, drilling a hole in the shaft, tapping a thread and attaching a steel rod. Unfortunately this did not work. Neither did the improvised tool I made by using a bit, and a quarter inch 8mm socket with extension. I tried heating the valve with a pencil torch but the torch went out because of the lack of oxygen in the pump tube. Time to resort to violence I thought. As a last ditch attempt I made another improvised tool, now using two extensions and a ratchet on an 8mm socket with an impact driver bit. To my amazement the valve came loose after exerting substantial pressure (the shearing force must have been enormous). After several attempts the valve also came loose in the other stove. In the broken stove there was something odd with the check valve, it was black (the one on the left) and it obviously been tampered with. I made sure my removal tool fitted snugly on the valve and put the valve from my old stove in the broken stove, tightening it with my home made removal tool. After filling the fount with Coleman fuel the stove lit up and burned nicely although it does seem to loose pressure quickly. I will now carefully remove all the bits, clean them and reassemble the stove. I'm a sentimental sap but I'm really glad my stove is working again. It has been a trusty friend for 25 years now.
Excellent photoessay of your journey of discovery. You should be proud of your accomplishment and confident that more complex repairs are also within your capability.
Nice job getting it running. Some things to consider in the future. If the check valve is only seeping a bit, but seals when the air stem is tightened, it is working properly. The CV on these is not a positive stop, the air stem is. The check ball is only there to eliminate back flow during pumping. Coleman didn't use cyanoacrylate on these. They were designed to be removed. Some newer ones used a small rubber seal just under the shoulder, but most are simply a brass on brass seating arrangement. And after they've been installed for a while, they will make that cracking sound when they break loose. New replacement CV and airstems can be purchase for around 5 dollars. If you plan on removing CVs on Coleman product often, I HIGHLY recommend the dedicated CV removal tool made by Dan MacPherson or Hibrow2 on a popular auction site. The rod locks the tool to the CV eliminating slippage and the marring of the brass that you experienced. The two rods are for the two CV types that Coleman has used. After using modified tools like yours a few times, I got one of these and cannot believe how well it works. After removal the CV brass is still in factory condition with no marks or distortion. It will even work on CVs that have already been destroyed by other methods. I am not affiliated with either tool maker, just a satisfied user. Mike
The tools look really nice. Sending them from the US to Europe will probably be prohibitively expensive. I have already ordered some spare CV's, just in case. Most of the other parts are still servicable, so I hope to use the stove for another 10-15 years. I tested Loctite Blue (medium), this did not dissolve in Coleman fluid. But as you pointed out, Coleman probably did'nt use a sealing or locking agent. After cleaning the stove, it ran for about an hour, only requiring occasional pumping. My brother would point out "that if it works, do'nt fix it". So I will leave it here.
In the eighties I lived in Seattle. There was a plumbing company who had as it's slogan: "We fix what your husband repaired".
