MSR model 9-A catalog pics and helix plug

Per my recent MSR Newsletter & Catalog find.
Issue 11, March 1976, page 11-14 and Issue 12, March 1977, page 11-23
Pictures and images are not very good in the catalog.
I did not know there was a helix on some stoves, I also acquired a nice find, a helix plug of all things. The plug with instructions came with the parts to a 9-A parts kit I located. The jet that was included had the screen in the bottom. I do not have a scanner, so I used my new camera for pics, nice and close up.
Duane

 

Really, really interesting!! Great find, Duane! Would love to see the rest of the newsletter.

The pic of the 9A looks like the burner bell is smooth, rather than scalloped as on the original Model 9s. I seem to recall reading here that the burner bell on 9As were also scalloped (?).

Again, great find.
John

 

Good morning John, the newsletters are mostly about climbing gear and outdoor clothing. They have a few more short write ups on the MF and model 9 stove too. The 9A cost was $41.10 and the DF was $45.25, so now I see there was actually a DF. Cool stuff.
Duane

 

Duane,
You lost me.
The images you posted don't have the prices.
Is the "DF" you mention a DragonFly or a "Double Fuel" not previously mentioned?

Ken

 

Ken, just reading from a list from the Newsletter & Catalog. We're talking old stoves here, not the DragonFly. Prices were separate from the write ups.
Duane

 

I understood that, what is the DF?
Ken

 

Ken, dual fuel. How's the lathe setup?
Duane

 

Hey, Duane,

Outstanding stuff, and absolutely good information, with no hearsay influence! I would like to see the entire article, if possible, just to add to the information that I already have, and I'd love to see the photo of a DF. To date, I considered the DF to be simply a predecessor to the GK, but I may well have been wrong. I'd love to learn more! So, please give me a shout, and let's talk about this important stuff. Additionally, the page you show illustrates the 9A, which seems to be nothing more than a Model G, and maybe was the G's predecessor?? I don't know for sure, as I've always believed that the 9A was the same as a Model 9, complete with the scalloped burner, but with the newer yellow pumps instead of the original white pump, or it's first replacement, which was yellow, but with the same architecture as the white original pump.

Ahhhhh, something new to learn every single day, and I LOVE it!! 8) Talk to you soon, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Doc, the more we learn the more confused we get it seems. No pic of the DF in the Newsletter unfortunately, our luck, it would look just like another model. I was waiting for confirmation of my thoughts about the 9-A looking like a G. You think like I'm thinking. I can post more pics later this coming weekend, my puter and dial up phone lines take 15-20 minutes to optimize.
Duane

 

This is really interesting. Let me, just for the sake of discussion, roll out a theory to get things started, and then let’s see where that takes us. Let’s consider some data points:

- First is a comparison between a Model 9 (from the Reference Gallery) and a Model G (from the 2011 Outdoor Retailer Show). Other than the obvious differences (scalloped burner bell and base), the Model 9 has a short “stubby” sparker knob, short pot supports, and a short catch arm. The blue-bodied Model G has a longer/more “slender” sparker knob, longer pot supports but a similar short catch arm on the Model G as on the Model 9.



Now, compared to Duane’s newsletter pic of the Model 9A, it shares the “stubby” sparker knob with the Model 9, and the short catch arm is common to both. It also appears to share the same blue body color as the Model G shown above, as well as the longer pot supports.



- Second, is a later Model G (also from the Reference Gallery). This has the slender sparker knob, longer pot supports, gold body and a longer catch arm. This one also has a metal base instead of the plastic one on the earlier Model G, as well as cleaning wire (absent on earlier models).



- Third are a couple of MSR advertisements. The one on the left is from the Oct. 76 issue of Backpacker magazine, advertising the “Model 9A” and “MF” stoves, and the one on the right is from the April 78 issue, which was the first one I could find that advertised the “Model G” and “Model G/K” stoves. Both of these are after Duane’s Mar. 76 newsletter discussing the 9A and “DF” stoves.



- Finally, here’s the pic of Doc Mark’s MFs from the other thread – with stubby sparkers, longer pot supports, and gold body.



So how to piece these all together? Hell if I know. More of a guess at this point, absent more data points. But, here’s one way to look at it:

1. There really isn’t *that* much of a difference between a Model 9A and an “early” Model G. At some point between 10/76 and 4/78 (the date of the two Backpacker ads), MSR went from calling the “Model 9A” the “Model G,” and the “Model MF” became the “Model G/K.”
2. There isn’t a clean line of demarcation between the 9A and G (and the MF and G/K) models, so much as it *may* be possible to characterize some as “earlier” and “later” – that is, things like the “stubby” sparker knob and short catch arm are characteristic of a 9A or an early G, and the “slender” sparker and longer catch arm are more likely later Model Gs.
3. MSR probably was using whatever stock they had on hand, so there was probably a period where stoves were sold as Model 9As (or Gs) with longer/shorter catch arms, stubby/slender sparkers, or both. I wouldn’t think the company was concerned about the individual components, so long as they were functional (a la Penberthy) – the “switchover” in nomenclature was more of a marketing/clarification move than an indication of a true difference in stove design.

Just to be provocative and throw it out there for discussion.

Got no idea how the “DF” fits in here, unless it was another name for the “MF” or “G/K” at some point along the way.

 

Good points John, I was wondering the same. I'd like to see an example of a DF for comparison. Some of the pics MSR has, different models look the same, all we can do is give educated guesses. Some of us may have models we think we don't have.
Duane

 

Could it be.....?
Some marketing guy sent a newsletter out that mentioned the DF but really meant MF? It would have been typed in the office, not the factory.

Wasn't "multi-fuel" really just gas & kerosene?

That would explain the document and no stove to back it up.

This newsletter reference is the fist mention, I have heard, of a DF stove.

Ken in NC

 

Good Morning, Gents,

The DF is mentioned in the list of stoves that MSR has developed, along with a rough timeline of when each model was produced. Here is that list, this one having been submitted by my dear departed friend, Andy Sorensen, from Alaska, many years ago here at CCS:



As you can easily see, this list, from MSR, shows that the DF came AFTER the MF, and BEFORE the GK, which makes for an interesting conundrum. I have long thought that the DF may have been the MF to which had been added the coil of wire which is shown on one of HikerDuane's stoves in the photo I posted here. As I see it, and hey, I could EASILY be wrong, my photo, bottom to top, shows: The MSR MF (modified with the bit of sheet metal added to the burner coil); the original MF, unmodified; and the DF, with it's wire coil. I believe that the GK is a further improvement as it has the completely round burner coil, and also the coil of wire, as the DF had. This all makes sense to me, but again, could be wrong, and I'm always open to learning more, as more info comes available.

Take a look, and see what you think:



This has been a puzzle that has been long in the making, and long misunderstood. I think we are only now beginning to see the true and honest picture of how the old MSR stoves lined up, and which model came first, middle, and last. What do you think, Mates? I'm thinking this makes the most sense out of what has been a very complex and misunderstood history. There is lots of great info on this that has been posted, but there is also a TON of info that I truly believe is just plain wrong, and that has led far too many folks to make wrong conclusions. Talk to you all soon, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Doc, didn't you get the middle stove from Sam, yours is first and mine with the wire coil is behind?
Duane

 

Morning, HikerDuane,

That is certainly possible, and in fact, it's possible that both of the other stoves are Sam's. I have tags on each stove, telling me to whom they belong. But, as your original #9 is not in your possession, and I also (finally!) returned Sam's "box-o-stoves" to him (Thanks a ton, Sam!), I cannot remember, exactly, who owned which one in that photo, except for mine. Getting old and forgetful, it seems! Thanks for setting me back on the straight and narrow on that count, my Friend! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Well maybe I did not send my MF but my dear to me #9 to you. Your memory is better than mine, but big thanks to Sam.
Duane

 

Interesting stuff, all.

Thanks,
Ken

 

Hi guys!

Now that you mention it, those two stoves in the back ARE mine! I thought there was something familiar about 'em! Thanks for setting ME straight, HA, HA! I still have both stoves, so if you need more pics, I can certainly accommodate.

The discussion on the DF is fascinating to me. It might be the missing link or could I possibly have a DF in my possession? Both the Multi-Fuels I have look the same except for the wire coil, as far as I can tell. Would there be any identifying marks Doc?

sam

 

Model
9 Small unmarked jet w/screen, helix plug surge protector, solid rod in fuel line, crimped burner bell, four pan wires shorter in length than the radius of its housing, which is vented with four large holes, sparker with large knurled nob. Masonite baseplate.

9A. Smooth burner bell , pan wires longer than radius of stove housing now with single large vent. Bakelite baseplate.

MF. Smooth burner bell, pan wires longer than radius of housing now with single large vent, fuel line takes angled turns up and over burner. Bakelite baseplate. Experiments begin with heat shielding fuel line.

DF. Larger jet than any previous model castle-shaped with a large cavity below it for sintered brass surge protector. Fuel line wrapped with wire heat shield and interior rod replaced with flexible cable. Housing now with additional large vent. Sparker becomes more streamlined.


G. Similar to 9A except for a new large jet with sintered surge protector and cable replacing solid rod in fuel line, as well the new streamlined sparker.(This is the last model that appears without the fuel line looped over the burner).

G/K. Similar to DF except fuel line is looped over the burner allowing the cable to run through entire line. Begin experimenting with multiple fuel-specific jets. Housing eventually changes to single large opening.

XGK. Similar to G/K except multiple fuel-specific jets are of a new design no longer castle-shaped but more like a set screw ,closer in appearance to the original Model 9 jet but abandoning the screen, that protected the jet opening, as well as the surge protector. One jet marked for gas, one for kerosene. Bakelite baseplate abandoned for Aluminium. Eventually pan wires are raised.

XGK II. Abandons wire heat shield around fuel line as well as sparker. New pan wires in two piece crossover arrangement.

XGK II Shaker. New jet system, taller jets with a cavity below for a weighted cleaning needle.

XGK II Shaker Expedition . New jet series: echoing the original Multi Fuel jet the principal GK jet burns gasoline and kerosene while a secondary jet is for heavier fuel like diesel.

XGK EX.


I have ignored many small differences for the sake of simplifying as well as pump models altogether, but putting together the timeline above from Doc Mark/Andy
Sorensen/MSR and the “date stamp puzzle” from Scrambler does this seem like a reasonable list of significant changes that differentiate models up to the current one?

 

OLD THREAD
Duane, Re OP and now onto "our understanding" of the XGK line, you have contributed mightily with excellent accurate content, I thank YOU kind sir.

TV,
This is great, I like it, +1 crediting Andy, RIP, for crucial content he posted in 2006.
Isn't this maybe worthy of it's own topic ??? If Duane / site admin / or you want to go that route... along those lines, to delete or move my comment has my blessing, thank you.
​

> You shared an interest in *simplifying. You offer a "timeline" with "list significant changes that differentiate models".
*Just IMO a "timeline" could list model, a descriptor and start date w/year maybe month / year. (and end date).
RE "...list of significant changes that differentiate models " excellent details but to simplify, that list can maybe add-on or follow timeline? just a thought.
FWIW I've researched many models, including MSR's XGK line, a post you're familiar with (a "work in progress" XGK timeline). I've also collaborated with members online/offline on other models, doing as you have done, identifying characteristics that differentiate models. It's challenging, you have done well with that. You have done very well and your efforts are much appreciated, thank you.
I too find model research can initially establish a sequence without dates as you've done , so again I am liking this.

> I expect you're using MSR's terms / names? [[ re your "XGK II Shaker Expedition" ?, link? ]]

> Your pan wires, enlightening for me, so there are 4? types of XGK pan wires? (fwiw "pan wires" an MSR term, my impression, MSR currently refers to them as pot supports).
You have included pan wires .
Might i suggest integrating all 4? types of pan wires / pot supports into your sequence?

FWIW +1 w/pumps omitted for now, a detail that is easily integrated later after more research re pumps.

> not to you but to some readers, purpose of list below shows when 2 models were offered concurrently, nothing "new" with this:
9
9A
9A -and- 9MF or MF Multi-Fuel
9A -and- 9DF or DF Dual Fuel
G -and- GK
X-GK
XGK II
XGK II Shaker
XGK EX

Keep up the good work, i'll leave you to it. my thanks again to you BOTH omc
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