What I found surprising is the level of environmental asbestos, this from Wikipedia: "Asbestos can be found naturally in the air outdoors and in some drinkable water, including water from natural sources.[55] Studies have shown that members of the general (non-occupationally exposed) population have tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of asbestos fibers in each gram of dry lung tissue, which translates into millions of fibers and tens of thousands of asbestos bodies in every person's lungs.[56]" So I wouldn't be too concerned about asbestos washer replacement, just don't grind it up and snort it.
If you have concrete water mains then asbestos is the fibre that binds them together. In this use asbestos is safe. It can't hurt the stomach. Dust from cutting those pipes is deadly. Asbestos has been in frequent use right up to the mid to late 80s where it became highly restricted, but even now it can be found in brake parts and engine gaskets. Don't rely on the asbestos-free labels either. Some Chinese manufacturers believe that crocidolite is not asbestos but that is the one that will kill with the slightest exposure. Interestingly, there was a scientific paper written in the late 1800s suggesting a link between asbestos and lung cancer deaths. The problems of asbestos have been known a long time
Hello Daryoush, If you insist on answers on the two questions posed by you earlier in this thread, I will reply by Private Message. But what really intrigues me, is at what conclusion(s) you have arrived? It appears you got plenty of same answers, but what did you do with the information? Regards, Mike
Hi Mike If you would like to give me answers, you are more than welcome. Of course I posted a concern, and I am only interested in replies to the subject. And I dare say considering all the replies it was informative to all of us. That makes me happy. I have eight three legged stoves. Some of them been in service for near twenty years. I am going to leave them alone for the time being. But the first chance I get, I'm going to change all the stem washers with the ones sold by Kerophile for sure. Reading replies from our members, my conclusion was that it is all around us. But it is as dangerous to our health as the rest of the stuff we are in contact with. During the eighties there was the same concern about fiberglass padding, which was widely used for insulating 2 by 4 wood-framed structures in California. The logic was fiberglass is also made of long and narrow prticles with sharp edges, which can easily get airborne and inhaled. I'm not going to worry about it but I'll avoid contact with it as much as I can. I'll be interested to hear your conclusion. With Respect Daryoush
Hello Daryoush Thanks for starting this thread. I am sure that the use of asbestos in some of the gaskets on some of our earlier stoves is of interest to us all. The answers posted by members have been varied and very informative. It seems to be that of course old gaskets should be treated with care in case they have some asbestos in them, but that we should not run screaming from the room and lose sleep over it. Dutchmike, the tone of your post suggests you are not happy about some of the information or advice given in this thread. If that is the case, maybe you could expand on it to the benefit of us all.
Hi Trevor Thank you very much for your kind and positive words. I agree with you 100%. we all learned from it. Some replies seemed to come from engineers and scientists. I mean those with numbers and percentages. And of course I do agree with comments regarding greedy lawyers and class action law suits, and other comments along those lines. There are ads on TV by lawyers (ambulance chasing ones) to represent clients for asbestos exposure. I also like to hear from DutchMike. Yours Daryoush
"same concern about fiberglass padding, which was widely used for insulating 2 by 4 wood-framed structures in California" We have this stuff in wide usage in NZ The rumours were here too and not helped by the resin used to bind the stuff together which made bare skin itch like you wouldn't believe. I installed this stuff in many houses as an after school job and always looked forwards to a cold swim afterwards. Then I insulated my first house with panels that were too big (got very cheap) and had to cut the lot to fit. Was coughing blood after that for a few days but still fine 25 years later. Insulated the current house 10 years ago and the new resin has no itchiness at all. The alternatives in NZ are sprayed in rockwool which may turn out to be not much different to artificial asbestos and polyester or wool based panels which both burn.
Daryoush, Trevor, To start with your request Trevor, I have no problem whatsoever with the responses given. These reflect awareness without drama and a practical advise, as it should be. Daryoush, I must confess my sensitivity if not frustration with undue fear, as I have never seen any positive result stemming from it. On the contrary, I have experienced financial and emotional damage because of someone else's unfound fear. We all suffer a world in which life is increasingly burdened by unreasonable safety measures, based on fear. For instance, I believe your country is paying a way too heavy price for this insane 'war on terror', that predictably lacks any effectiveness. And my handy army pocketknife with a lockable blade now makes me a criminal in the UK as a considering camping owner in Cambridgshire pointed out to me two years ago. While (instinctive) fear is a very good safety tool, if we respond with our bowels instead of our brains the result is often ineffective as well as absurd. Why you - and hundreds of millions other people - seem to embrace fear rather than find factual knowledge and thus free yourself of any threat, is puzzling me, and annoying me as well. Because I admit frustration with this quality of thinking that to my mind is the basis of some deplorable developments affecting us all. I found your question was reflecting such unreasonable fear, and even now I sense you are not entirely convinced. Somehow the notion that asbestos is deadly if touched, or even present, prevails. As our quality of thinking governs our feelings, I have come to realise it is indeed hopeless to eradicate fear out of this world, and I find that very depressing. I admit I have sought relief in ridiculing fear itself, and your question worked as the catalyst. I do not think your person was affected, but if somebody looks like a fool here, then it would be me. If I have insulted you as a person, than I sincerely apologise. All this said, I forego any private message to you. Finally, I hope you will enjoy your stoves without undue concern, as knowledge has indeed the power to dispell fear about asbestos, and infinite more. Regards, Michael Meijer
My Good Friend, DutchMike, First and foremost, I want to thank you for giving voice to something that's bothered me for a very, very long time. Fear IS paralyzing, and in many ways, we've allowed fear to control our world for far too long, now. Your illustration of certain pocket knives now being a criminal offense in the UK, is spot on the money. I will bet the farm that all of Britain's intrepid explorers and adventures over the centuries are spinning madly in their graves, wondering "what on God's green Earth have we become in the UK"!!!! We, in the US, are not immune to that hyper-fear that grips the UK and much of the rest of the world, over things that matter little in the broad scheme of life. In CA, they now tax soft drinks if the amount consumed goes beyond a specific total of sugar, which THEY decided and set arbitrarily. Too many times the actual facts are left out in the cold, whilst fear-mongering and worry seem to rule the day. There is often no rhyme, nor reason, to these restrictive regulations, bans, and thoughtless controls we have placed on ourselves. But, the end result is that our quality of life is severely diminished, and we now walk around like poor "Chicken Little" in fear that someone may drink too much sugar, or carry a nice pocket knife as they go about their day!! Unless we roll back this abject fear, and need to control and regulate EVERYTHING, our lives will continue to degenerate until we are nothing more than a bunch of frightened little church mice, kept in a very small cage, who experience nothing of value, and no substance whatsoever...... as that has been ruled too dangerous for us!!!! I sometimes think that folks like George Mallory, who rests eternally on the upper reaches of Everest, had the best of it. As sad as it is that he and his friend, Andrew Irvine, had to lose their lives in the attempt to climb this dangerous mountain, at least they could do so unfettered by needless restrictions, back when we were expected to take care of ourselves, and deal with any and all consequences that might arise in such a dangerous situation!!! That's called "LIFE", and far too many of our population have never experienced such freedom in their own existences, sad as it is. That having been said, we can now all go back to worrying about December 21, 2012, as we only have a month and a half to fret before those wily Aztec prove right and our world comes to a complete end!!! And I SO wanted just one more sugary drink and a good pocket knife...... for Christmas!!!! Thanks, DutchMike, for being the voice of reason and candor in this topic. Our wonderful Bluebird camp oven, from around 1924, is, I'm certain, lined with asbestos sheeting, and we worried about that not a single whit, as we have enjoyed all the wonderful meals that oven has prepared for us whilst out camping!!!! Take care, my Friend, and keep the faith! God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (who likes to EXPERIENCE life, as God intended, instead of worry needlessly about it!)
Interesting thread! We have had similar concerns here in Canada about mercury. Now I don't know if there is any mercury in stoves, probably not but the fear factor is the same. Even batteries with minute quantities of mercury in them, bound up chemically with other molecules is being touted as "poison for future generations", when dentists here are still mixing up an amalgam of mercury and other substances to place in fillings in peoples teeth. ??? Stan
Yes the knife laws in the UK are strict, but then we are a small island with no jungles or rattlesnakes. People don't need to routinely carry a 9" knife to fend off critter attacks. The 3" folding non-lockable blade applies to knives than can be carried for everyday use. ie.. A Leatherman/Swiss Army Knife in a belt holder that you can carry whilst going about your normal daily life. Should be sufficient for most people. Other types of knives may be carried with 'reasonable cause'. A fisherman can have a 6" filleting knife, a chef can carry his kitchen knives, a diver can carry a leg knife, a hunter may carry a fixed blade hunting knife etc.. But, they are only legal whilst involved in that activity. The fisherman's knife must be packed away when he's not fishing. He can't have it on his belt whilst having a post-fishing pint in the pub. The divers knife must be packed away with his diving gear, not stored in the car door pocket. The law is there to stop the pond life carrying a 6" knife to a football game or nightclub. Personally, I don't feel that my rights or liberties are being infringed as I can still use pretty much any knife I like with 'reasonable cause'. I can't imagine a situation where I would have a knife without reasonable cause, so it's not a problem. Regards, Terry
That's all well & good Doc but in the context of the original question my take on it is that it was a overblown rant with no advice of any use to the OP. I don't see fear in the OP's post - just uncertainty seeking opinion. I doubt any concerns Daryoush have are causing him to be depressed whereas Dutchmike can extrapolate that concern to a global level & find it depressing. Only one loser there I reckon. I'm pretty relaxed dealing with asbestos washers on stoves, in my opinion, but I think, given Dutchmikes perspective, I'd be more interested in his method of dealing with these washers than his views on irrational fear generally. Other folk have managed that. It's easier to change perceptions & tackle fears where they exist in small steps with useful, relevant advice than a broad sweep venting on the subject of unjustified fear in general. As well as unfounded fear another problem the world suffers from is simple questions not getting simple answers - obviously doesn't just apply to politicians. All my penknifes lock. I'm in the UK. If I need them I carry them. Simple.
My small knife also locks Ross. I found that this was a good idea years ago when a non-locking knife folded on me and cut my finger badly. On another track, I once stopped off on the M1 motorway services in Leicestershire. It was a Sikh festival. There was a coach load of Sikh people all carrying at least two foot long swords! If it had been me I would have been arrested for carrying an offensive weapon. Why do they get away with it? You do not get UK police Tazering Sikhs carrying swords, but they can Tazer a blind OAP with a white stick, because they thought it was a sword! OK rant over. Feel better now.
Hi Shed-man, - A Sikh Kirpan is exempt, as are all knives carried for religious reasons or as part of a national dress. However, if they had been waving them aggressively at passers by, they would be breaking the law. And yes, you would have been arrested for possessing a Kirpan in a public place, as you are not a Sikh and so would have had no exemption or reasonable cause . When I was a delivery driver I carried a Gerber with a locking blade in a belt pouch. Exactly like you, I had had a knife close on my fingers. One morning a Policeman in Brighton asked to see it. He examined it and asked why I was carrying it. I told him it was to cut the plastic strapping on pallets. He said "fair enough" and handed it back. Regards, Terry
I have now officially changed my Religion to Sikh so I can now carry a whopping great sword (only on Holy days). I also have an allegiance to, and an uncle, who is into Bushido (and have watched The Severn Samurai), so can also carry another whopping great sword. I have also watched the Magnificent Seven (so entitled to carry Colt 45 and Winchester Rifle). The world has gone mad! Led mainly by weak British Governments (Plural) ever since Ted Heath promoted the idea of joining the EU. I liked Ted Heath as a dance band leader (different one, sorry, but much nicer). Whoever thinks that 33 odd nations can now live happily together, when they have been fighting each other for 3000 years is living in cloud-cookoo land, never mind actually agreeing financially. Is it just a coincidence that the EU Auditors have failed to sign the Audit accounts for the 18th consecutive year? The organisation of the EU is as corrupt as any in the world. Sorry, but rant definitely end here. Sweet dreams. Apologies for going off theme. Steve.
To me one of the sad things is this quiet acceptance of increasing restriction. The knife business is a good small example. I would say that it's not up to a constable to decide whether my knife is reasonable or not. One will say yes, another will say no. We have some well-articulated Consitutional principles here that specifically forbid this "constable interpretation" of laws of general applicability. It used to not be a crime; now it is a crime. To that extent, it is a clear dimunition of liberty. Legislative and bureaucratic bodies never- never- decrease restrictive laws or regulations. Every time a legislative body meets, it passes laws. It virtually never repeals any. There's a new link in Marley's chain forged every day, for each of us to drag around. I am always amazed when professed lovers of freedom defend the latest restrictions on freedoms. Freedom of speech is nowadays exalted as the greatest of freedoms. In reality liberty of action is the greatest. I want to be always able to say what I want. Far more important to me is to be able to do what I want. Do knives matter? Maybe not so much. What matters is that before, you did what you wanted, what your forbears did. Now you can't. That's all.
If you are worried about asbestos keep it wet. Doesn't matter what its wet with but wet asbestos doesn't release fibres into the air. Seal any left overs in a plastic bag and hide in your rubbish. Problem gone
Boy, are you right there. Fear of same sex marriage, abortions, and "socialism" to name just three whip the Religious Right into a frenzy of trouser wetting proportions! Same fear, just different targets. Cheers, Graham.
Wow! Apparently I'm gripped by hyper-fear. I would give a longer reply but I've got to lock the bread knife in the safe, check the lawn mower for asbestos and then pop up the road to check that my gay neighbours aren't holding hands in public. Then I can rest easy.
