More unscrupulous behavior happening.

Good Morning, Gentlemen and Ladies,

Well, I guess I should not be surprised, but "it's happening, again"!! A fellow who already has a fairly tarnished reputation for his ripping off ideas from others and having them manufactured, has done it yet again!!

Please check out the latest idea/design to be stolen from one of our CCS friends:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/QUIETSTOVE-...346?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac68e8ed2

I, for one, am really angry to see this happening again!! To me, it's an open and shut case of thievery, and I hope the Stove Community feels likewise. However, given the way things happen these days, I guess the chips will fall where they may. Personally, I think the perpetrator will eventually get what's coming to him, one way, or the other. But, it would be nice to see the Stove Community, at large, stand up and tell this guy he is not going to get away this his poor actions, this time!!! That's just me, and I would not be surprised to hear that others feel differently about all this...... My sincere condolences go out to Gary, for having yet another of his ideas stolen and plagiarized!!

Thought you all might find this interesting, if not intolerable. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Mark, for those of us who do not follow this issue, can you give us a brief explanation of what is going on?

 

Hey, Sparky,

In brief, Gary has worked very hard to design, and manufacture his silent caps, and many other good things, for Stovies the world over. Some years ago, one of our then members contacted Gary, and Gary, being the sharing and generous person that he's always been, spent many hours talking to this person about how he builds his caps, and offering many suggestions. He thought this fellow just wanted to build a cap for himself, and Gary was all for that. Unfortunately, the fellow stole Gary's ideas and went on to have his silent caps manufactured, and is currently selling them on eBay. Gary went on to design newer, and even better caps, which could be cast, and sold for less money, which is a great idea. Once Gary's new Dawg-A-Nova caps hit the market, Mr. Unscrupulous has again stolen the design, and is offering the caps on eBay, once again!!! The fellow, about whom I will refrain from saying it as it really should be said, has been bad news since the beginning, and obviously has NO concerns for doing what is right!!!! He seems to have no shame, whatsoever, about stealing ideas from others, and then making money from the work, talents, and creativity of those from whom he has stolen!!!

So, that's it, in a nutshell. I will not say more, as we have some folks of delicate constitutions here at CCS, and I will try to remain a Gentleman. So, "now, you know the rest of the story". Sad to see this happening to someone who has given so much to the Stove Community. I, for one, will never tolerate such bad actions. Others may choose for themselves how they will see this. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Mark

 

Link to Gary's cap

It's like the early days of Primus & Optimus all over again!

I can see why Gary would be peeved although I would dispute his claim of being the original inventor of silent caps for backpacking stoves. If you take the 71 & 96 as backpacking stoves (before the term backpacking was invented), they had silent cap options before Gary was born. The South Koreans were also very clever with many stoves having the choice of roarer or silent options.

There was enough of a case of supported original development, difference in style ie factory-made v. handmade & final price-point that I've never taken sides in this argument. I do remember Gary's move into this type of manufacture & the launch of his Nova cap & while there's no way you could describe me as a Berniedawg Fanboy I do think this instance of copying sucks.

 

Doc, I have the same gut reaction. Unfortunately, there appears to be no such thing as Karma in the world of business. Stealing ideas and exploitation to turn a profit are more often rewarded and praised than condemned.

So while I have never purchased a silent cap, when I do, it will be from Gary as he has always been a generous and entertaining contributor of knowledge and ideas.

 

So are Gary's designs patented? If so, he has a legal remedy. If not, while hardly ethical, duplicating his design may not be illegal. Gary is a smart guy, he needs to come up with a new, patentable design. The bad thing about a hobby that becomes a business is you probably won't have fun doing it anymore.

 

Unfortunately this is the nature of business. Industrial espionage is rife in the cut-throat capitalist world. I had a similar experience when I was younger and less wise. A watchmaker opened a shop in town and started bringing me repair work which came to him, being in a more prominent position. This worked well for some time and then he expressed an interest in the techniques I was using, assuring me he wasn't going to start doing the work himself and would continue bringing me his repair work. Like a fool I gave away some trade tips and secrets and the work dried up. I then spotted a sign in his window :
"Jewellery repairs carried out on the premises" .

I remonstrated with him and mentioned that he gave his word not to steal my business. His reply was "Business is business" and all I could do was call him a liar (with a couple of expletives). I have never let that happen again.

I feel for Bernie Dawg, I bought a couple of his early caps and found them to be excellent and recommended them on this site. It's always the nice helpful guys who get shafted. (I hope that doesn't sound vain but I like to imagine I have integrity and honesty in business)

I regularly get people calling to ask how to sort out the mess of the zinc counter they've tried to make. My stock reply is "You've had my bread and butter, now you're asking for the jam? Get lost".

 

I have not been so disheartened since waking up to the news that it was Andy Murray who shot down the plane in San Francisco !

 

That sucks, rotten sod!

 

Darto,

Is that supposed to be funny? If so, I believe your comment is in very poor taste. Death and injury are nothing about which jokes should be made, especially now. Just my two cents.....

Doc

 

Sparky's right. Unless one takes out a patent, or copyright on something, imitators will flock to the table.

Japan, China, and others have been accused of copying in the past, sometimes they make a hash of it, sometimes they improve on it, but when mass production is available with cheap labour - they clean up. - For a while - until the workers begin to demand more pay. I am led to believe that in Japan, the word learn and copy are the same word. They learn by copying - don't we all. Where would we be if a 'language' had been patented?

I've got a cap I'd like Berniedawg to replicate for me, but it's a one off for a vintage stove which likely will never get used on a regular basis. Plus it involves cross Atlantic post charges, so the likelyhood of it getting done is slim.

 

G,,day its not nice.
stoves or anything.
I make, or did make dummies for rescue training.
someone has copied and undercut my price.
it is not nice, but very hard to do anything about it.
kerry

 

Last time this came up I said that the caps in question only shared the basic shape and that Bernies caps were art and the other supplier mass produced and as such I considered them different caps. This time I look at both caps and see the only difference is the logo on top. I can't say they are different caps
I don't know if they are made the same way or from the same stuff but as far as one can tell one is an exact copy of the other. No more no less. I don't know who came first but knowing the history of these two members I have to accept Docs opinion that Bernie designed this cap and that the other member (we all know who it is but for obvious reasons can't speak his name) is the copycat. I will probably never buy a silent cap but if that changes it will be a berniedogg

 

Strong words by some, no wonder there is so much violence in the world.

So pleased that I don't live in the USA.

 

Strange conclusions by some, no wonder there is so much ill feeling in the world.

So pleased that I don't live in Rossendale.

 

Given what's already passed behind the scenes it would sadden me greatly if this broke out into a flame war on open forum.

 

TD

I am as well

 

Sorry if my sarcasm backfired .

Just couldn't understand why someone would want to inflame what had been, up until then, a reasoned and polite discussion. Of course, in hindsight, all I did was fan those flames.

Feel free to delete my previous post.

Best wishes to all.
Terry

 

it all started in this thread: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/13757 (page 4)

and then went on to this thread, which is basically one huge classified ad (like most of quietstove's posts are): https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/18827

and then there was some discussion about whether or not quietstove should be allowed to advertise on the site or not, etc, etc, etc.

which then gave birth to this potentially fake "feedback" thread (a.k.a. more free advertising): https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/23057

and this not fake feedback thread in rebuttal: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/23084

 

I was not inflaming any thing TD I leave you to do that

I agree BD Caps are the finest substitutes for the real thing,better probably than the original items that Primus made(don't no never been able to get one), I only say that because I own two BD's Caps and the workmanship is first class.

I don't own or want to own a QS cap.


I just find it strange that BD was calling out for people to take over the production of caps,Poor BD was becoming flooded with orders just from CCS members requests.
Did he not ask MSR to produce some Caps?

I think for the early silent caps BD put up a pilot hole guide that you could down load to make your own caps,if I copied his guide to making a Silent Cap and sold them to other stove collectors or users would that make me a thief. 8-[

I could understand BD starting this topic if he was upset with the QS Copy.

TD

Publicly calling a person a thief and drumming some type of Lynch mob against someone who makes a type of silent cap for a stove neither reasoned or polite.

For that reason I put the comment "I'm glad that I Don't live in the USA"