My 111B was working just fine.... until I turned it off, turned the valve counterclockwise to clean the nipple jet, and then when I went to try to light it again, liquid gas was shooting out of the jet, along with flames if I hold a match to it. A little flame will continue to come out of the jet, unless I release pressure in the system by undoing the tank lid/cover. Any clues as to what the problem might be? Too much pressure from enthusiastic pumping? Something worn out? What I did that hasn't helped: First, I replaced the entire valve spindle assembly with new packing. The needle and ratchet seemed fine. The jet seemed fine. I am quite sure I re-installed the needle correctly (4 clicks, it lines up and pokes through when turned all the way counter clockwise). I tried lighting the stove and had the same problem again with shooting gas and flames. So I then replaced the needle and nipple/jet. First, I found that the spurting gas problem had stopped, but I couldnt' get the stove to light! I gave it plenty of preheating, too. Then I don't know what happened, but the gas started spurting again, along with attendant flames if I try to light it. any clues? I have replaced everything in that vicinity. Why wouldn't it light the second time? and why is the gas spurting and flaming, even when the valve is supposedly closed? Thanks, Griz
Hi Griz, Try only three clicks on the needle.Sounds like the needle is getting in the way. HTH PS: Ian put up a great thread on 8R fixing,most of which also applies to 111's,00's,45's,etc. Lots of pictures! Here's the link! https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/3908
Thanks for the suggestion. I tried the 3 clicks. The stove then lit, but it didn't't roar as cleanly as it used to. It seems a bit weak. Then I found that when I turn it off, if I turn the valve counterclockwise to "clean" the jet, and then try and start again, I'll find that gas squirts through the jet. Same original problem again. I can't figure that one out yet. The needle pokes through just a little bit like I believe it should. It seems aligned. Could something be coming out of joint when I do that counterclockwise maneuver? Might anyone know what is generally the cause of gas and/or flame coming through the jet, even when it's all off (when there's pressure in the system)? I'm gonna try taking the whole thing apart again and soaking the parts with vinegar for an hour and see what that does. Can't hurt. Thanks.
HI, Sometimes, there accumulates carbon deposit or metal chip where the spindle meets the fuel supply hole. This may prevent the spindle to fully shut off. Try carburetor cleaner that contains toluen. It will loosen up the deposits, although the chemical is known to cause cancer and other bad stuff. If you remove the spndle, check for its tip: it should be smooth and no deformityes. You might want to inspect the innards, just to make sure the fuel passage is shiny and clean. bark2much
Ok, I'll take the hints, and spray and spray. And I'l keep you all posted. the strange thing is that the stove had been working fine w/o a hitch, and then, after turning the spindle to clean the jet, it was shooting gas through the nipple. And each time I do a remove and reinstall, the same thing will happen. It will light (or not!), and then after cleaning, the gas will spurt. makes me wonder if something's not right with the spindle -- even though I installed a fresh one, and same thing... or something about where the spindle touches the end of the tube ... ? Does anyone know what generally causes the gas to shoot through that nipple?
Griz, Nothing wrong with a flame thrower. Seriously, I highly doubt that the spindle has anything to do with going off of your description. It sounds to me like the burner is not hot enough to vaporize the amount of fuel it is getting. Two possible problems. On a 111b there should be a small screen placed inside the burner head. To get at it you have to remove the assembly from the tank. You will see it. If not, try putting one in, use brass. When you changed the packing did you also change the jet? Could be that it is oversized as well. Evil
Dr. (?) Evil, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I did change the jet. I will also try different nipples and see if there's a difference. I do have a variety (because a few came with a 111 Hiker that I also have), but I think I'm using the one meant for this stove (the pin-sized opening is the smallest of the choices I have -- is that correct for this stove?) I also do have a brass filter screen (rolled in a cylinder shape) in the tube that feeds from the tank to the burner. Is that what you mean? I checked it for gunk, and it seemed clean, but I cleaned it with vinegar anyway. I used GUNK cleaner and I was able to get the stove up and running, but I'm not sure that dirt had to do with my problem. Perhaps Dr. (?) Evill is on to something regarding the vaporizaton of the fuel: My main question at this time: After gettting the stove up and running, and then shutting it off: is it normal to have to go through the prewarming procedure all over again if the stove has sat unused for 1 minute? Or even 30 seconds? That is what I am finding at this point. If I wait a minute after turning off the stove, when I turn the valve/spindle, liquid fuel will spurt. But if I have the stove prewarmed, and then turn the valve/spindle, vaporized gas will come out. So a related question I have is: is it ever possible to prewarm too much? Another question while I'm at it: my instructions suggest pumping about 12x for pressurizing the tank. Is it possible to pump it up too much, and if so, how much might too much be? And a final question to tag along for the ride: What material(s) might I use to serve as a gasket between the spirit cup and the burner? And where might I get that material/piece. I offer my sincere gratitude to those who have responded so far, and I look forward to any input you all might have on any further aspects of this discussion. Cheers, Griz
Sounds like the innards are in place. Usually the different sized jets are stamped according to fuel. If not just keep changing and see if you can find the right one. Preheating. There is no such thing as too much preheating. I have found that while using white gas there really isn't a need for anymore than just a few pumps. I have never started mine with twelve 12. That could be a problem but not sure. You can actually get away with not pumping with WG. It will self pressurize. Try using it without any pumps if all else fails and see what happens. Remember if it is a 111b it will never work properly with kerosene(paraffin). As far as gaskets are concerned there is no gasket on a 111b. The spirit cup screws right onto the base and none is required. If you need gasket material there is a previous thread that can give you better explainations than I can. Graphite packing string works well and fairly easy to find. Rob aka Evil
Hi Griz When you say shutting it off, do you mean closing the stove down entirely ? Depending on the temperature, wind conditions etc., it could well need re-priming, but why do you shut it down after only a minute ? - these beauties aren't gas stoves and are pretty frugal, so just turn them down a bit. If the shutdown happens when you work the cleaning needle, then you need to use it as a quick twist only, and the stove should stay lit. Overpumping is when the tank bulges ! Once the stove is going and the tank gets warm it will self-pressurise to an extent so large amounts of pumping will not be needed. Just monitor the flame and give it a few pumps occasionally. Remember that there is a limit to the rate that the burner can vapourise / burn fuel, and trying to force it through quicker will only tend to force out liquid fuel, which is not good. On a 111B the spirit cup just screws onto the base of the burner to hold it in place so the priming fluid gets at the burner. A washer of any kind would serve no purpose. Hope you get things sorted, just stop turning your stove off and on . . . . . . keep it on Cheers
Keith, thanks for picking through my questions and offering answers. I have concluded that my original problem relates to Evil's inklings about the prewarming and your additional remark about the "... limit to the rate that the burner can vapourise / burn fuel, and trying to force it through quicker will only tend to force out liquid fuel, which is not good." So it seems as if there was never anything wrong with my stove in the first place! The "problem" was that I needed to learn some basics about stove operation. And I love learning by mistakes. The best way, eh? to answer your question: -- by "shutting off," I did mean turning off the stove completely. I didn't turn if off after a minute of cooking. I turned it off for one minute, after I thought I was all through with my cooking project. You see, my companiera and myself thought we had finished cooking our pan seared shrimp with the hoisin glaze, and we were letting the shrimp do their final cooking for 2 minutes in the hot pan with the heat source turned off. But when we got ready to serve the dish to waiting guests, we found that the shrimp had not fully cooked. So it was then, my supportive fellow stove enthusiasts, that I attempted to restart the stove w/o pre-warming. And to make matters worse, when I was unable to get the stove to Iight, I thought I'd help things by pumping up that stove a little more, only to make it squirt unvaporized fuel through the jet. It's a good thing I had a little trangia alcohol stove nearby that I was able to use to finish off the dish! I have since tried prewarming and less pumping, all to good effect. My one remaining query, if those still reading would be willing to respond: On a mild summer evening (60-70 degrees) with little wind, does it make sense that my 111B would need to be prewarmed again if it has been shut off completely and sat "cold" for only about a minute? It seems like a short time, but maybe the temperature changes quickly, and in order to work, those pipes need to be HOT?! Thanks, Griz
Yes to the last question. 1 minute is a decent amount of time. You might be able to get it to relight but I doubt you will get optimal performance out of it, especially if you turn it on full blast. I usually give a few extra pumps and turn the flame down til I am sure I no longer require it's services. Keep it hot, at a small roar it really isn't burning that much fuel. Evil
Thanks Evil, for taking the time to reply. I'm relatively new to this world of stoves, and I think I was lucky that I was able to get the stove to light in the past using my misguided methods! I do find that my 111B with the "roarer burner" is more forgiving than my 111 Multifuel Hiker. At least I have found that the 111 Hiker requires about twice as much pre-warming/priming. cheers, griz
As far as I can make out, the upright tubes on the 111B's burner don't contribute to the vapourising process. One is a straight-through tube to get spirit into the priming cup. The other leads up into the burner head but there is no place for any fuel vapourised there to go so it's a dead end. It seems that the prime heats the area around the valve and the delivery tube sufficiently for the petrol to vapourise, much the same as say, an 8R. You can maintain quite a small flame in the 111B which is enough to keep the petrol vapourising so you can increase the flame if needs be. I like the 111B - own fuel priming is a definite advantage, and there's no shortage of heat there either. If it has a downside it is that it is even noisier (mine are, anyway) than the paraffin 111 and a bedtime brew can wake up half a campsite.
You're very welcome Griz, nice to see that you're getting the hang of it ! Been away for 3 weeks hence the delay in replying. Pre-heating should not be considered a chore, more as part of the ritual, a bit like the Japanese Tea ceremony You are of course now hooked !
