Hi, as I told you previously, I recently received a fairly early (1950s) Optimus 111b, described by the seller as a "classic paraffin stove". I now have the stove operating well, after a full strip-down and replacement of washers, cleaning needle and windshield. But I have found two markings on the stove, made by a previous custodian or owner, using a Vibro-engraving tool. Here are some images: The use of the abbreviation; Coy. implies a Military background as they are the only current users of this abbreviation for Company. The JS was a bit of a mystery. However, speaking to a retired Army Warrant Officer yesterday, he immediately suggested Joint Services Company, and pointed to Staff Colleges and Expeditions who might have used such a stove, although it was not given a formal Army cooker number. I do wish Shed Man was still with us as he led several Joint Services Expeditions and could advise me. There are, however, several CCS members with a Military background, and they can perhaps help me with this mystery. Best Regards, Kerophile.
Hi George. Never came across 'JS Coy' myself. The 'J' in a unit title would nearly always mean Joint. The 'S' could be any number of things: Supply Service Signal Surveillance Support Security etc Terry
Is it possible it was actually owned by someone named J. S. Coy? I found several people in the US with that name.
Hi Terry and Sparky, thank you for your replies. I must admit that I still favour the Joint Services option but you never know, there could be a stove user called Joe Coy out there. Best Regards, Kerophile.
i would think the military would do a better job of marking their gear.i know when i was in everything had to be squared away. a Joe Coy might not be as perfect. this should be a good mystery to follow.
I vote for private owner, I can't see why the amy would engrave the tank below the fuel line. You can't see it there so it serves little purpose. On the other hand a private owner may want to do it this way just incase it gets flogged.
Hi, I did a Google search earlier, and have also checked telephone directories. Coy is an uncommon name in the UK, although there seem to be a few in the Cambridge area. Perhaps they all emigrated to the USA? I agree that the marking is crude, but this is not an official Army cooker and you could imagine the keeper believing it was desirable and in danger of "walking" with one of his mates from another Company or Platoon... Anyway a mystery, and for me it adds to the interest of the stove. Best Regards, Kerophile
Stores in the British Army (based on my experience, but others may have experienced different systems or terminology): It was quite common for 'attractive' items of equipment to be marked in some way. They were referred to as 'starred items' in official quartermaster speak. In Germany, one of my second hats was CQMS (Company Quartermaster Sergeant). I was responsible for all the unit's stores, including all the adventurous training equipment such as tents, rucksacks, ropes, stoves, compasses etc. These were all marked in some way with the unit ID or other identifying mark. There was no official system. They were marked by whoever was in charge, using whatever means he saw fit. The CQMS had to account for all stores, so there was an incentive to keep track of stuff. As the CQMS post changed every 2 years or so, all sorts of markings could be found on equipment. 'Proffing' (the unauthorised acquisition of military stores) is a major pastime of all soldiers worldwide. QM staff fight a constant battle to avoid the items going 'diffy' (deficient). In many cases this was not theft for profit, but all soldiers liked to keep 'spares' in case they lost anything and wanted to avoid having to pay for it. Extra items in a soldiers possession were referred to as 'gash'. eg, if a soldier said his bayonet was gash, he meant it had been 'acquired'. Almost all soldiers had gash gear tucked away somewhere. Of course, it also worked the other way. QM staff were always keen to relieve soldiers of unattended or dropped equipment, to use as replacements for stores that had gone diffy. I could imagine a hairy arsed stores Corporal being given an engraver and told to "mark that pile of equipment". It would have been up to him how he did it. It may be worth asking member Teletim if he ever came across a JS Coy, as I think he was in the Guards. Terry
Hi, George, Hearty congrats on the very interesting 111B that you have acquired, and I love the mystery surrounding the markings found thereon!! I would vote for military markings, as they fit into what I know about British regiments in the American Colonies, during our Rev War. As you know, I reenact a British medical man, functioning as Doctor and Surgeon's Mate for the 33rd Regiment of Foot. Known as the "Col's Coy" (The Colonel, Lord Cornwallis' Company), the 33rd is still around today, and has a very long, and very honorable history!! Here's the website of our reenacting group: http://www.33rdfoot.org/ So, "Col's Coy" being a normal way to abbreviate the penning of our 33rd Regiment of Foot title, your "JS Coy" would seem to me to be very close, if not exactly, what you think it is: "Joint Services Company", or something very much like that. I think you've got it down pretty close to meaning of those markings. Just my opinion, but what you surmise makes perfect sense to me. By the way, I know that Coleman fueled stoves are not the norm in the UK, but as this Old Timer 111B has such an interesting mystery surrounding it, I think it's well worth being in your collection of fine and interesting stoves!! Well done, George! Thanks for sharing it here, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Mark P.S. IF more firm evidence of provenance for "JS Coy" should come to the fore, I'd love to know what you find, please, and hope you will share that info here.
Hi, Using Google search I have at last found a reference to JS Coy. relating to the British Army (Royal Green Jackets in this case). "Major Harding was my SGT in Minden Platoon, JS COY, Winchester in 1987. Even then I was in awe of this man, his tough fairness, his humour, his kindness, his way of pushing me to excel and beastings that I quite honestly never deserved!!!. Since I left the RGJs, I still held fond memories, often hearing about his rise through the ranks. My first conversation with him was when he presented me at 16 years old, fresh from school to my section Cpl Crucifix. Well the name left me cold, but both my Cpl & Sgt inspired me. My time in civvies good and bad, has always seen me think of what he stood for and what a legend he was, even back in 1987. We all have regrets, and mine was leaving the RGJs so early, but I've always led my life and followed my ambitions in the way that Major Harding instilled in me. A rifle Man, a Gent and a Role Model." http://the-chosen-man.blogspot.co.uk/2007/06/major-paul-harding-4th-battalion-rifles.html Best Regards, Kerophile.
Ah! That gave me a lead George. Have now found the 1987 Newsletter for the Regimental Association of The Royal Green Jackets - Link Page 9 gives notes on the Light Division Depot Winchester: "The past six months has seen a period of consolidation at the Depot. The training staffs for the Junior Leaders and Junior Soldiers Companies arrived shortly before their recruits, and both have settled into the new routine." There is also an entry on page 10 regarding a visit by HM The Queen Mother to The Light Division Depot Shrewsbury: "JS Company under Command Major Charlie Heyman paraded in front of some 1200 people including the Colonel Commandant of the Division, General Sir David Mostyn, and General Sir Roland Guy Adjutant General. Her Majesty inspected the Company and others on parade before witnessing the traditional double past." Terry
Hi Terry, Thank you. So one possibility is that my Op.111b belonged at one time (around 1987) to the Junior Soldiers Company of the Light Division. Were they based at both Winchester and Shrewsbury? I bought it from an ebay seller in Exeter in July this year. Best Regards, George.
I think that in 1987 the depot moved from Shrewsbury to Winchester. In 1983/4 when I was based in Shrewsbury, the Light Infantry were in Sir John Moore Barracks. I notice that the Winchester barracks is called Sir John Moore. So I guess they took the name with them when they moved. There would not have been two barracks with the same name at the same time. Terry
