Hi. I'm considering getting a MSR Whisperlite International or Universal (whichever is the cheapest - I'll only use liquid fuel anyway), mainly as a somewhat quieter option to my Omnifuel. In most of the user reports I've read, the stove is used with gas, which I'm sure works fine. But I prefer kero whenever possible, particularly with anything involving a hose. So, any experiences with the Whisperlite burning kero? Not for short periods in an emergency, but as regular fuel? Particularly in cold conditions and at less than full Power? I've read a couple of reports suggesting insufficient preheating for winter use, but I hven't found too much information on this. Any thoughts?
Should work just fine. Just make sure to put the kerosene jet in and use a windscreen. Prime it really well so the generator is hot to begin with and start cooking! It's big disadvantage is that it doesn't have a cup around it to retain the heat like the other MSR products have, like the XGK stoves do. Should work just fine! sam
There have been quite a few discussions here about the opinion of the Universal performing much better than the International when using kerosene. Here is one ... Link And ... Link Some have said that the International did not burn the kerosene very well, but that the Universal burned the kerosene very well. Ken in NC
OK, so the Universal may have an edge when it comes to burning kero. Seems to be more available locally as well, and the two versions are priced very similarly. Universal seems to be the way to go then... I have also noticed the very exposed priming cup. Doesn't seem to take much of a gust to blow the priming flame away from the burner. An external wind shield is obviously a good idea in any case, but still...
Hi, knutb, Sam and Ken are right. The Universal is a much better stove, and burns kero just fine. It also offers the option for Coleman Fuel, or the use of cartridges, too. It is our current "go to" stove for many adventures, and works wonderfully! The original Whisperlite Internationale, was a dog, and did not burn kero worth beans, IF you were trying to do that often!! Ours failed us on our epic PCT hike of 850 miles, and forever earned my scorn and contempt. The later Internationale 600 is a much better stove, and burns kero better, too. But, the Universal is the best of the bunch!! Use the heavy foil windscreen when priming and cooking, and it will be a wonderful stove for you!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I'll 2nd the opinion of the older version. Perhaps kerosene as emergency use. I've attempted and tried double pre-heat and still sooty, dirty and irregular flame control. I have not used the newer version but if Doc gives it a I'd take it to the bank as straight scoop. AR
".... if Doc gives it a I'd take it to the bank" I did, and bought a Universal today. REI had a 20% discount, and I had a gift card, so the cost was 9 dollars and change, Basically the cost of the sales tax. We will see. Ken in NC
Howdy, All, Ken, I hope you like your Universal as much as I like mine! I liked it so much, I bought another one!! So, we have two of them, now, and they both work like champs!! The Universal is a very well-designed stove, IMHO, and covers lots of bases with the three fuels it can burn. It's simple to swap between fuels, too, once you get used to doing it. Have fun with your Universal, and I look forward to your report here! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc P.S. Thanks to AR for his very kind words. Unfortunately, if you try to "bank" what I say, you'll find the account is overdrawn and bankrupt!!
OK, the Whisperlite (Universal) has landed - and burned. It was set up for canister gas, so first thing to do was reconfigure for kero. Straight forward, except the nozzle was tightened very hard from the factory, so I had to use a lot of force to get it out... My impressions so far (which isn't very far at all ): Burns nicely. Puts of quite a lot of heat - half a litre of water boiled in just under three minutes, without any extreme pumping. Regulates quite well, taking into consideration that the only control valve is on the fuel bottle. So far, very much in accordance with the user reports. What I haven't quite figured out yet is priming. On kero that is. If burning gas, I assume everything is straight forward, but my first three startups with kero have been a bit on the messy side. I prefer using meths if possible, so that's what I've done here too. But the primer cup seems awfully small, and the meths burns out very quickly. So those of you who have used the Whisperlite on kero, how (much) do you preheat?
I have not used this stove yet. I prime kerosene with meths. That said, you may try to use a fiberglass wick in the priming cup, and prime with the kerosene. I have read of this, but have not done it. It allows the kerosene to get more air than a 'puddle' of kerosene in the priming cup alone. A wick can be made from a wick lantern wick, or made from the gasket for a wood stove. I got notice this morning that my Whisperlite Universal has shipped. I should have it Friday. Ken in NC
I have been thinking a little If I was burning gasoline, I would also prime with gasoline, just as described in the manual. But I'm burning kero, and I want to prime with meths. My first attempts indicated insufficient pre heating. To soak up some more meths (and avoid spilling), I made a small priming pad/wick, and placed it in the priming cup, just as suggested in the post above. Preheating was now much better! Since I wasn't priming by feeding fuel from the bottle throught the nozzle, it took some time for the fuel to arrive at the burner when the valve was opened - the fuel line was empty and needed to be filled up. I wasn't expecting that, so when I tried to re ignite (after the priming fuel was burned out, and when the valve was opened), nothing happened. After a few seconds suddenly white smoke from vaporized kero appeared (smells bad to say the least). The stove fired up quite nicely, but I'd like to get rid of that delay when opening the valve for the first time. SO, at the end of day one, my startup procedure for burning kero end priming with meths is: Pump up pressure Open the valve until kero just starts to discharge form the nozzle, and close the valve again immediately. The fuel line is now filled up and ready for action. Soak the priming pad with meths and ignite. When the meths has burned out, open the valve and ignite the stove. No smoke, no fireballs and little soot. There may be better ways to do it, but at least it seems to works pretty well.
Good Morning, knutb, and Ken, knutb, what you have described, is exactly how I go about it when burning kero in my Universal stoves. MSR used to offer a round, chimney-like fiberglass wick, for the Internationale, and that always worked very well for soaking up either kerosene (messy and sooty for priming) or Meths (MUCH better for priming). I don't know if MSR still offer that wick, but you could contact them and see if it's available. It's tall, and that helps to get the priming flame up nearer the burner, too. FYI. Have fun with your Universal, and Ken, please let us know your thoughts when yours arrives, too!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Thanks for your comments Doc; I seem to be on the right track then. Good to know! Regarding the wick/pad, mine is simply a small piece of mineral wool (from either glass or rock), used as insulation for houses. It doesnt't burn, it's dirt cheap, and it works. Pretty much what I need...
If you are truly using "meths" or methyl hydrate, then be aware that it usually contains a good deal of water mixed in with it. If you switch to denatured alcohol, which is 90% ethyl alcohol and 10% methyl hydrate (it should say that on the label) you get a lot more heat and faster pre-heating using less alcohol. FYI.. Alcohol burning stoves benefit hugely from using this hotter form of alcohol. Stan
Stan, the phrase "meths" in my case is not accurate. The stuff we can buy here in Norway is ethanol based with some additives to make it undrinkable, yet not lethal. It's colored red and doesn't smell particularly good... It's the stuff we normally use in Trangia stoves, and the funny part is that it's quite common to add a bit of water (about 10%) to reduce soot. But for preheating, the soot is insignificant.
These are two different substances. Meths is an abbreviation for 'methylated spirit' which is mainly ethanol (C2H5OH) with methanol and other substances added to prevent people drinking it - IIRC, pyridine which has pungent odour and also a purple dye (unless it's industrial methylated spirit, which is colourless) Methyl hydrate is an old-fashioned name which refers to methanol (CH3OH).
Yes, I suspected the term "meths" would be another one of those so-called english language terms that is interpreted differently in different english speaking countries. It would be much more convenient to have a specific and consistent usage of these identifiers for commonly used fuels. We certainly have it for medicine. I was in Both Turkey and Peru recently and needed some over the counter medicines and despite totally non english speaking druggists, it was absolutely no problem getting what I wanted. Stan
The inconsistency in names is no obstacle to understanding in our stove world. We did have to sort out some naming conventions in the early years. One now sees, here at least, "kero" or "kerosene" in place of paraffin (mostly), and "petrol" (particularly "petrolburner") in place of "gas(olene). "Gas" was, of course, very confusing as a usage in the stove world, when used to identify the liquid fuel. We learned (we old timers) early on that "meths" was pretty much what we called denatured alcohol, rather than methanol, but we don't color it here. Indeed, I've never quite understood why it's colored in the UK, though I've heard and comprehend the explanations.
