Getting Manaslu 96 and Optimus 00 ready for an expedition.

I've been tinkering with my Optimus 00 and I got a smaller lighter Manaslu 96 to join its kero cousin, but what I am missing is some non porch experience in the field of what I need to bring along to keep theses stoves running, and to keep the repair and rebuild kits light for packing up Mt. Whitney in winter.

I obviously need a jet pricker, what gaskets should I bring for my 5 day trip?

Should I bring a NRV tool? A spare NRV, extra jet, and jet removal tool?

Please help!

 

If your seals are good (still pliable to form a seal) and your NRV works (the pip is pliable and the spring is giving good pressure) you shouldn't need much more than a pricker, alcohol for clean priming and clean kerosene to run them. Your pump leather is another thing to inspect before your trip. NRV changes are like changing the brakes on your car, not necessary to do often but important when the time comes.

 

Wrench?
Spare flame spreader for the 96?
Lots of bits to lose on a 96...
Lots of priming, paste or liquid.
Multiple ways to light stove (NOT Piezo, they don't work at altitude)
Pot big enough to melt snow.
Lots of fuel to melt said snow.
Something (foam Pad or such) to insulate stove from snow.
several pot cosies.

 

Personally, I'd check'em and prep'em ahead of time and then just take the basic necessary stuff with extra fuel and matches. Having two stoves should cover you if one gives you trouble.

 

As it is a Manaslu N°96 it has a similar roarer burner as the 00 so no abundance of little parts to get lost!
Check your seals, if fine now they'll be fine for another couple years! Check & oil the pumpcups, when in fine condition they'll be etc.etc.etc.! I don't know if Manaslu is using leather or plastic cups, if plastic it might give trouble in the cold so best to replace it with a leather one.
A pricker and wrench to assemble the stove(s) will be all you need re tools. Make sure you have enough meths to prime & your kero is clean & plenty.

Have a nice trip!

Best regards,

Wim

PS., loads of spareparts & tools are only needed when using "modern" stoves, they are the ones that need lots of TLC 'en route'!

 

You might want to do a Google search on this site for posts written by a couple of members here: Hikin Jim and Hiker Duane. Both are experienced hikers and even do a certain amount of winter hiking. There is always a mention of stoves.
The nice thing about these stoves is they are reliable over time and will not be so prone to breaking with the passing of time. All things in moderation but one must maintain a stove for it to work correctly.

Hope to see some photos when you return, happy mountaineering!

 

Thanks for the help. I just wanted to be extra sure as the 00 is quite old and I replaced most gaskets and the NRV last winter but the Manaslu is brand new and despite being new, it's seals it is untested.

Most other stoves being along an expedition repair and rebuild kit, and I think it would still be prudent to bring atleast the basics to keep this groups vintage stoves going. I know that in all likely hood the replaced seals on the 00 and the new seals on the Manaslu will hold but I don't want a lack of preparation to cost a summit for the team.

I will certainly bring the pricker, wrench and an ample supply of denatured alcohol.

What make a it hard to bring more spare parts for these old stoves vs the MSR line (which use one little stamped tool) is that the tools to install and access all parts for the vintage stoves add a good few oz that could be used for other things.

 

Make sure you have gloves that can be worn while starting your stove.Not too bulky. I use hospital gloves under my regular gloves.
Bring a extra supply of good luck also

 

I head out to start Whitney in a few days and I wanted to resurrect this thread instead of starting a new one to ask a few more questions if anyone could help me.

In my yard both these stoves were getting very hot. They do not have the pressure relief valve like a Svea123r. If this stove gets to hot can it explode?

What sort of windscreen can this stove use? Is a full wrap around bad?

 

In addition to the things noted above, I would add some sort of insulating pad to place on the snow and on which you put your stove when in operation. Without some sort of pad the heat from your stoves WILL melt the snow beneath them causing the stove to tip and the pot on top to tip over as well. This will be a waste of fuel, water, or food depending on the circumstances. I use a thin piece of plywood to which I glued a piece of retired closed cell foam sleeping pad. Makes for a nice working surface. I have never had a stove tip over using this system. I have tried using the blade of an avalanche shovel as a base but find this does not work well for me. Don't forget a tall windscreen for your OO. I prefer Mautz "fire ribbon" or similar to use for the prime when it is really cold or windy. Sooty and messy to be sure but when it's zero or below I find that it makes the task of priming a bit easier. Bring a variety of fire starters: matches and lighters to be sure.

 

Both stoves are kero which doesn't really need a safety valve. Kero is hard to light when a cool liquid.

 

Greetings, arson51,

I'd recommend a wrench and extra pricker for each stove, plenty of kerosene fuel, and plenty of Meths priming fuel. In my own opinion, unless they have improved it massively, Mautz firepaste is not worth a bucket of warm spit. Turns to ash as it burns, and does not last long enough to really do a good job on an 00, and probably not on the 96, either. We tried to use it on our PCT trip, and found it next to worthless. Optimus priming gel was MUCH better, and worked like a treat. Just my experience, for what it's worth..... I really envy you your trip to Whitney! We planned to climb it from the West side, whilst on the PCT, but on a trail like that, side trips are not as easy as we thought they would be. Good luck, have fun, be safe, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

They will get hot, but not too hot.

As for a windshield, I use aluminum foil

 

I'm preparing an Optimus 00 for a winter trip too.
Regarding the issue of priming: It usually takes meths (alcohol) to prime the burner. Though bringing meths has 2 distinct disadvantages:
1) Meths doesn't burn round freezing temperatures. So you'll need to keep it on your body (incl sleeping bag) to keep it warm.
2) It's another item to bring, whilst the pressure to "go light" resists one from bringing unneeded items.

Priming with fuel (paraffin) is possible, though paraffin needs a wick to burn at room temperatures. You can put a pad into the priming cup, that will act as a wick. Then you can prime with fuel.

I've tried different kinds of priming material for a wick, like matches, pieces of wood, pine needles, and pieces of paper. Pieces of paper worked best for me and I've been priming the Optimus 00 with small pieces of paper:
Edit: My method:
1) I've pumped up the stove,
2) let fuel poor into the priming cup,
3) then added (a few!) pieces of paper,
4) then lit the fuel+paper (paper acting as a wick)
5) Thus priming the stove.


It can be done, but it's quite messy. Preheating with fuel blackens the burner and the paper may keep sucking air from the flame for a minute more or so.
Though I find that these drawbacks outweigh the trouble of bringing meths.
One final point of advice: If you choose to leave the meths at home, practice in your backyard first!

Hope this is of help.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Mt Whitney, Been there, done that.
A great view. Enjoy it.

Ken in NC

 

Hi Arson,

Are you going up the Mountaineer's route, or the trail? There may well be open water at Lower Boyscout Lake, Upper Boyscout Lake- but probably not Iceberg Lake (Mountaineer's route), and in Lone Pine Creek (Trail), depending on the weather. The presence of open water makes a huge difference to your fuel balance (melting snow vs not melting snow). Call the rangers and ask 760-873-2483 .

Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine: dont fart around with a fussy vintage kerosene stove on a winter trip at high elevations subject to severe mountain weather. Get a gasoline burner like the Soto Muka, or one of the MSR's. Test it. Dont bring any spares. Do you really want your group to depend on an untested antique? It seems inappropriate.

I see that you are from Leadville, so you may be a very experienced mountain winter camper and know exactly what you are doing, and thus not need my puny words of wisdom. Apologies if that is the case.

In the friendly Sierra summer I think a 00 would be really neat (along with an old Trapper Nelson pack of course). But in winter? Not so much.

Ditto NP4-8-4's advice to bring an insulated pad to place the stove (any stove) on so it does not sink into the snow as it heats up.

FWIW: you may want to consider bringing both snowshoes and crampons. It can be post-holing deep snow. Or the trail can be an icy slide if the weather has been through warm cycles (as I know it has) and lots of other folks have been tromping ahead of you. Crampons are non-negotiable on the Mountaineer's route of course.

On the plus side, the summit of Whitney is only a long day hike. At most, you only need one overnight stay. So, in the worst event, you are only one march from your car if you cant live without a failed stove. Bring some power bars for dinner in that event.

I hate to see you come all the way out to Owen's valley and get skunked over a stove. Bring a modern version and have a great hike. Post some pics!

 

great advice Dutch Peter, i copied your process for,priming
thanks again

buzz

 

"Everyone has an opinion. Here's mine: dont fart around with a fussy vintage kerosene stove on a winter trip at high elevations subject to severe mountain weather."

I tend to agree and rarely put any of my kero burners to real work but there does seem to be a major portion of people here that swear by kero even in winter. Look how many Kap Artics are not kero.

 

Good Morning, All,

Well, I guess I'll have to be in the "other camp" on using kero in Winter, and at elevation. We've used our 00 in deep Winter, camped on 12 feet of snow, at almost 10,000 ft in elevation, and it's always fired right up with Meths as a priming fuel. I also love the fact that the cold does not sap the heat and pressure from the kero stove fuel tank, like it will do with gasoline stoves. Take a look at all the legendary Explorers of old, and even up to Hillary and those who conquered Mt. Everest for the first time. All took some sort of kerosene stove, and all, by and large, trusted the reliability and abilities of the Primus stoves they chose.

In their June/July 1981 issue, Backpacker Magazine took a poll of the experienced outdoors folk and climbers of that time, and there are the results:

- Jim Whittaker - Optimus 00

- Arlen Blum - Optimus 111

- John Roskelley - MSR G/K

- Paul Petzelt - Optimus 111B and SVEA 123 (he goes on to say that he wishes "we could go back to kerosene [in NOLS] because it's not that difficult to light. Gasoline is so dangerous especially when cooking in a tent".

- Yvon Chouinard - SVEA 123.

- Ted Moores [National Safety Diector for Outward Bound] - Optimus 111B and Peak 1. The OB Staff, at that time, preferred to use the MSR stove, but does not specify the Model.

As you can see, two of these august folks choose kerosene stove, outright, and two more chose stoves that could burner kero, but don't specify which fuel they burned. Another of those polled stated flatly that they preferred using kerosene because of it's safety factor and ease of use.

Why anyone today would think that a modern stove is more reliable at altitude and in deep cold, is beyond me. My own experience at high elevation Winter camping has convinced me that, properly serviced, and properly used, a nice classic kerosene stove is still JUST the thing to take on such trips. I even did a test to give lie to the "myth" about Meths not light in deep cold, as I recreated the test that Colin Fletcher noted in his book, The New Complete Walker. I put a Trangia burner in our freezer, overnight, and then stood a wooden match in it, butt first, and lighted it. The Meths lighted on the first try. I did it again whilst snow camping between 9,000-10,000 feet in Winter, and got the same result. But, truth be told, I only did that test to see if Fletcher's method would work, as I already knew that the Meths would like at that altitude and those temperatures.

So, I've added my own experiences and two cents to the mix, and hopefully, have not muddied the waters too much. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Hello gents,

Not that I have any great depth of experience, but the anecdotal evidence is there in spades.

Hillary took kero stoves up Everest, and to the South Pole.

Amundsen, Shackleton and Scott used them in the Antarctic.

What more extreme environments are there?

As many have already said, preparation is everything, and servicing equipment prior to use is a mantra that all should know.

It is my understanding (correct me if wrong) that kerosene returns the highest calorific value of any of the three main fuels. That would make it the better, with the related hassle of priming being of minor concern.

That is the logic I would be following.

However, I can appreciate the value of not having to prime, which is the reason (the ONLY reason) why I usually choose a Coleman lantern over a Tilley.

Just my tuppence ha'penny.

Best regards,

Mike.