Why all MSR Internationals are NOT equal!!

Greetings, Mates,

I've long decried our horrible experience with the first version of the MSR Whisperlite International on our first 850 mile Pacific Crest Trail backpacking trip.

Folks have asked me why we had such a bad experience, and what was wrong with that first version of the WPLI. So, today, I took some photos and measurements, which should show, conclusively, why that first version stove would NOT burn kerosene, and prime with kerosene, three times a day, for such a long trip, no matter WHAT the MSR advertising in the day promised!!!! Ours was fouling and getting balky after less than 200 miles, and finally stopped working completely on one very cold, and super windy night, in the San Gabriel Mountains!! We replaced it with a Coleman Multifuel M550B stove, and finished our trip without any further negative stove adventures!! Also, after our hike, and after I'd sent a detailed report to MSR, listing our problems with that stove, I got a nice note from Mike Ridout, who was their Stove Tech at that time, admitting to me that MSR never meant for that stove to burn kerosene all the time. MSR soon thereafter redesigned the WPLI into the Model 600, which is a MUCH better stove. Now, MSR offers the WPLU, and the Universal is also a wonderful stove, and our choice for a stove that will burn kerosene, without problem, and also Coleman Fuel, and as a bonus, cartridge fuel!!

Without further adieu, here are the photos that show why v1 of that MSR WPLI was such a DOG on a steady diet of kerosene, and why both the Model 600, and the WPLU are head and shoulder better in all respects!!

Here's a group shot, with the v1 on the left, v2(600) in the center, and our trusty v3 (Universal), on the right.



Here are the fuel lines.



Individually, here they are again.

The line on V1.



The line on V2.



And, the line on v3, the Universal.



Here's the super skinny fuel line cable of v1. Note the measurements in this, and all following photographs, please.



And the much larger one in v2 (the 600).



And, here's the beefy cable from the WPLU.



Here are the fuel line connectors to the generator loops, beginning with the skinny one from v1.



And, the bigger one on v2.



And, the large one on V3 (U).



Moving on to the different generator loops, note the skinny little thing on V1.



And, the much better one on V2.



And, here's the beefy generator loop on the v3 (U).



I hope that these photos, and measurements, will prove, once and for all, just why the first version of the MSR Whisperlite International did NOT do well on a steady diet of kerosene, and why it gave us nothing but trouble, despite meticulous maintenance and cleaning on my part!! Both the MSR Whisperlite International 600, the the new Whisperlite Universal, are outstanding performers, in all situations, and the first version remains a sad sister of a stove, when it comes to burning kerosene on a regular basis. If you have one, use it with Coleman Fuel, and it will serve. But, Mike, of MSR said that the first version should only be used with kerosene in a dire emergency, and not regularly! If you have any questions, please let me know, and I'll be glad to make more measurements, and post more photos. But, I hope this report will show why the later models of the International are MUCH better stoves, and just why all MSR Internationals are NOT equal!! 8) Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. I'm sorry it's taken me to long to fulfill my promise to do this report. Right now, I have a little time for stoves, and plan to make the most of it! More tests and reports will be forthcoming in the next week. Again, sorry it's taken so long.

 

Good write up Doc. I guess bigger is better....

 

Excellent!

'The rest of the story!'

Does the diameter affect the 'simmer ability?'

 

Great post Mark! Loved it. It's so interesting to see the fuel lines get longer and longer as the years go by. It is quite noticeable on the Whisperlite. It doesn't appear to be so with the XGKs, as they 'seem' to have stayed the same length of their entire run.

Thanks!

sam

 

Hi there Doc, great MSR anatomy lesson.
I have only vivisected brass tanks in tin boxes, so am a bit light on the inner workings of stoves with remote fuel tanks. Clearly I need to get my hands on some:-)
Why the bicycle brake cable inside the fuel line? Strength? Wick? Prevent kinking the hose?Heat conduction?
Does the bigger generator tube help by bigger surface area for heat absorbtion? Bigger volume for vaporised fuel?...
Cheers
B

 

Hi B,
Good question on the cable's funciton. Others will chime in on this but it seems that it serves multiple functions. From the purely practical (it is used to scour the inside of the fuel line when you clean the stove) to the more physical-chemical (buffering fuel flow and providing a large heat-conducting irregular surface area that can aid vaporization).

 

Very well said itchy.

Ken in NC

 

Morning, All,

Itchy is right on the money as to the purposes of that fuel line cable. The reason that the v1WPLI did so poorly on a steady diet of kerosene, which we used three times each day, priming with kero every time, is that the small fuel line, the tiny fuel line cable, and the small generator loop, just could NOT burn a fuel heavier then Coleman fuel in that scenario, and continue to work properly. I really got tired of having to scour out the fuel line every single day, and finally the stove refused to light on a very cold and windy night in the San Gabriel Mountains, and that's when I permanently retired it!!! It's lucky I didn't crush it to junk..... but luckily, Sweet Bride was a calming influence, and kept me from it!!

On both later versions of the Whisperlite International, to their extreme credit, MSR designed and manufactured much larger and beefier fuel lines, and their associated cables got bigger and stronger, too. Both of those stoves burn kerosene very nicely, even on a steady diet. It's good to see a great company like MSR, learn from their mistakes, and correct them in short order. I would love to think that all my input to Mike Ridout, their Stove Tech, during and after our PCT adventure, helped them to see what needed to be done. But, in truth, I have no way of knowing if our experience helped to pave the way to the much better Internationals that are offered today, or not. In any case, my hat is off to MSR for what the International became, even though the birthing process, with v1, was a horrible experience on such a long and demanding backpacking trip as we had on the PCT!! Thanks for the kind words, Guys, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Doc, can you measure the inside diameter of the fuel lines?

I used to see Mike Ridout at the customer service counter in the mid 90's. That was a time when you could buy returned items. I bought a pair of first version prototype snow shoes for 20 USD, and wish I had not given them away.

Ken in NC

 

Morning, snwcmpr,

I'll measure the inside diameter of the fuel lines, after we get back from church, and running a few errands down the mountain. Good idea, and I should have included that measurement from the beginning. Well thought to ask! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Slight change of topic Doc, but how do you prime with kero? I can't get kero to light. I use meths instead.

 

Hi, arson51,

Priming with Meths is, of course, a much superior way to prime any stove. However, when we bought the v1 International, the store from which we bought it, and also MSR, both told us we could use kero to prime, so we would not need to plan on having a second fuel in our logistics. If you look at the spirit cup in v1, and also v2, you will see a fiber-cloth ring around the bottom of the burner assembly, in the spirit cup. The instructions were, to fill the spirit cup with kero, let it soak into the fiber-cloth ring, and then light the ring. That works, but kero is a VERY sooty and nasty priming fuel, and HUGE sheets of soot would cover the entire WPLI stove, and come wafting up with any little breeze, getting on everything else, too!! ARRRGGHHHH!!!
We found that priming with kero, as we'd been told we could do, and as I had practiced before the trip, was really not acceptable, and should only be done in an emergency. MUCH better to bring a small bottle of Meths, and prime with that. Clean, easy, and no sooty mess, it's the perfect priming fuel!!

I hope that answers your question, arson51. Thanks for asking for the clarification, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

I agree with Doc. Priming this stove with kerosene, is for the out of doors only.
My recent purchase of the MSR WL Universal is my first of the WL multi-fuel stoves. There is a fiber-cloth ring in the priming dish.
I have primed it with kerosene dribbled into the priming dish and I also have primed it with alcohol.
Priming with kerosene means the fuel line is full of kerosene as the kerosene in the dish is lit. When the kerosene in the dish it lit, it starts to warm up the fuel line, which pushes that kerosene in to the priming dish, which is probably more kerosene than you planned. It does put a coating of soot all over the stove, but it does end up a very hot stove that burns off the soot left on the stove after priming. That soot flakes off and floats away.
When I used alcohol to prime it for kerosene, I did not think the dish was big enough for the amount of alcohol to properly pre-heat it. And this was indoors at room temperature. When priming with alcohol, you do not have to pump the tank and fill the fuel line until the burner is pre-heated. So no liquid kerosene is present in the burner.
When using kerosene, priming twice, with alcohol, was much better. I added a large priming dish and a braid of additional (fiberglass) wick, to the kit, and the next time I am outdoors with it, I will try it again. I did not measure how much alcohol I needed to pre-heat this stove.

But, I don't imagine most of the people buying this stove plan to use kerosene. they will probably use a canister.

Ken in NC

 

Hi, but basing from basic visual features of some shop online pictures, how can I be sure that nowadays they are selling the V2? For example I found this italian on line shop that sell the "COMBO" version with productor code "06635", visible on this link: http://www.pescifirenze.it/scheda_articolo.asp?idarticolo=5218
Is this the V2 version? Thanks

 

Tagging @Doc Mark

 

Hey, @alessandro ,

We've been on the road for the last 8 days, and came home yesterday to a nice big snowfall through which I had to dig to get us into the driveway!! 2 1/2 hours of shoveling, and using the snowblower, to clear the snowplow berm, clear the 130 foot driveway, and our stairs, finally got us into the house!

In any case, yes, the MSR Whisperlite Internationale stove you show in that link IS the newest version of that stove, and the best so far. Here's the stove from the MSR web page:

https://www.msrgear.com/stoves/whisperlite-international-2012

I don't know what the Italian site means by calling it a "Combo" stove, unless they mean it will burn both Coleman Fuel, and also kerosene. Other than that, I've never heard anyone call the Internationale a "Combo" stove, FYI. I hope that helps you, and good luck in scoring your own Whisperlite Internationale!!

Thanks to @snwcmpr for tagging me in this post! Much appreciated, Ken! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

@alessandro @Doc Mark - I should point out for the benefit of anyone wondering - the fuel line/generator assembly from the original Whisperlite International was subject to a recall ~20 years ago. Nobody should still be using the red fabric-covered fuel lines now - they tend to squirt fuel out of the seal between the flexible fuel line and the generator towards the stove while in use. I was a few years late finding out about the recall, but it was still handled no problem at all. IIRC the fuel line/generator and top plate were replaced (the top plate because the new generator was fatter and wouldn't fit through the hole in the old top plate). Given this, I assume I now have the equivalent of the 600.

If you're buying new, you definitely will not get the old fuel line/generator.

 

@Nick Phillips

Welcome to CCS.

 

It's a damn shame that MSR doesn't offer a metal pump as a option. Everything here tells me that all their damn pumps are garbage, it they don't crack, they need new o-rings every time you use the stove!

The gram weenies don't seem to realize that if it doesn't work consistently, who cares if it's the lightest stove made?

Murph

 

@Murph I thought there was a post somewhere, here, that explained the good reason for the plastic instead of metal for the pump. There was something to do with a failure melting the pump instead of building more pressure.
Anyone else remember that?

Ken in NC