Getting Manaslu 96 and Optimus 00 ready for an expedition.

When using pulk, I prefer the Optimus 111, even if it is heavier than my more modern Optimus Nova.
The major reason for 111, is that the stove is not dismounted for transporting.

If I for some reason have to use backpack in the winter, I need a more lightweigth stove, than I use a Radius 21 or a Primus 210. And my Radius 21 and Primus 210 is of the same weight as my Nova, remember to take a bottle with the "modern" stove to compare weigth. But the Radius21/Primus 210 take less volum in the back pack. I do not use "modern" stoves anymore, the old classics are much more easy to handle, and to maintain, and that is important to me in the cold.

In the summer, I use Svea 123r.

 

I'd like to report that preheating with paraffin on glass wool works well:

Method:
1) Roll a small string from a left-over glass wool piece (wear gloves).
2) Put the string into the preheating cup (wear gloves).
3) Pump up the stove and let paraffin pour out into the cup.
4) Light with a BIC lighter.
Note: Conditions were somewhat windy.

Results:
Please see the photo's below.

Main conclusions:
1) Preheating this way works fine.
2) The glass wool does not burn away and can be used over and over again.
3) The paraffin burns smoky and smelly, not recommended for indoor use.

Acknowledgements: Thnx a lot!
I'll be field testing this method upcoming weekend ..








-- Glass wool still fine after several preheats.

Cheers,
Peter

 

This post has exploded since I've been away on Whitney.

Irresponsible? Not the first choice for many but for the reasons listed here bringing a brand new Manaslu 96 isn't the end of the world. My partners trust me, I trust them. We dangle over long falls on ropes tied to one another, trusting pieces of rope and aluminum placed by our best friends! I think that concept is much crazier than a brass stove.

We spent one night at lower boy scout after a late start on the first day.

The team did climb the mountaineers route with good snow conditions for cramponing, We had to melt slow at Glacier Lake camp, where we stayed for 2 nights, the second one was spent primarily drinking at high altitude.

We climbed the Mountaineers Couloir, than did a class 4 scramble to the summit sending the strongest climber up on lead with the rope. Looking back it would have been less trouble to all solo it.

The descent was over the mild traverse on the NE side of the peak to rejoin the couloir. Conditions were mild for winter, more like spring. We used the Manaslu 96 exclusively for water melting, the MSR pocket rocket brought as back up worked just as well in the bright hot CA sun.

In defiance to your very good advice Sooty, I wore my vintage Filson wool climbing breeches, and my moleskin anorak, that matched the aesthetic of the 96.

The stove weighed 8 oz more than an XGK. We carried the fuel in coke bottles. So in the end carrying 3 liters of kero we actually carried ~17oz less than if we had carried MSR fuel bottles. Have you ever seen a coke bottle break while inside a backpack? Neither have I.

Enjoy the pics!

 

Hey, arson51,

OUTSTANDING report and photos, and very well done on taking your Manaslu 96, and proving that it works just fine in the conditions you encountered!!! 8)

I'm really happy that you had a fine trip, and returned safe and sound, with tales to tell and experiences to share!! Thanks again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Thanks for the excellent photos Arson, it looks like you had great weather and clear views. Mazeltov on a successful climb!

I love your old-timey climbing knickers and anorak. Quite an appropriate combo with the brass stove. Good on you.

Regarding stoves: I'll take the half-pound savings of the modern stove! That was my point all along really: that the most efficient stove for climbing (as opposed to simply camping) is the one that gives the most heat for the least weight. But that's not to say that a vintage-style brass stove can't be used, as you prove. I admire your commitment to the coolness of the brass stove- and also your strength!

Thanks for sharing your coke-bottle spare fuel idea. I also carry extra fuel in these. They only weigh a couple of ounces as opposed to 6 to 8 oz for the aluminum bottles. And they seem stretchy enough to expand with altitude gain without leaking at the threads (so far so good).

A couple of questions for future reference:

How long do you estimate that it takes to melt snow into a litre of water with the Manaslu? I'll compare that to the performance of my Muka. Any idea what the fuel consumption to achieve that melt is? (I don't really know for my Muka either, but I could weigh fuel before and after and determine it).

Cheers.

 

Great report.
Thanks

Ken in NC

 

I don't know the times for snow melt, Sooty. We had the 3.5l Open country pot with an attached MSR heat exchanger going constantly. We used a bit less than 2 of 3 liters of the kero to melt about 2 gallons of water per night, including boiling 2l of that 2 gallons for hot drinks. We did not have to refill the stove's tank until after it was all done.

The mornings often required a gallon of hiking water and 2 liters of hot water.

This trip was 3 nights 3 days march, about 60 oz of fuel used. Water, hot drinks and cooking for 4 people.

The testing I did in the was in my old Leadville home at 10,200 (32*F). I could get a 6:20min boil from cold tap water and 4:30min boil using the same 3.5L pot with a heat exchanger.

I believe a powerful modern expedition stove like a Dragonfly or XGK can probably do the same work in 3 minutes. The scary part of my experience with XGKs is that their owners often have trouble with the little kerosene wick at the bottom and often cause big flare ups when working with kero. I don't like that when we have to do things inside our tent. The Manaslu has no flare ups, and primes with meths very well. XGKs and Whisperlite Internationals and Universals I've used with meths have always flared with meths. They seem determined to be primed with mostly kero or just diet on Coleman.

 

Great info arson. Thanks.

It's hard to immediately relate your fuel consumption for 4 to my experience where I am either solo or we share stoves in teams of two (since two to a tent). I have not tried the heat exchanger but it sounds like it works well for you. The jet- boil pots work well.

I agree with your fear of flare-ups from the XGK. I have an early model. Even using gasoline it is slightly dangerous (I've never used it with kerosene). Caramba - one might singe one's fillson plus fours with such a flare up!

I gave up on the XGK. They are relatively heavy, and the priming is a pain. I'm using a Muka now (for winter outings only). They fire up without priming and burn like hell. If you ever decide to leave the brass stove behind, try a Muka- I think you'd like it.

 

We believe in the 2 stoves for 2 people in winter as well. The MSR was being fed a large pound canister of winter Jetboil mix. It did not run out of gas, and was a fast partner to the slow to prime kero burner.

 

Have you seen the price spike the last year or so? I got mine at an REI at reduced/clearance price. It's crazy prices for them now.

Ken in NC

 

Too true about the price of the Muka, Ken. It was certainly an indulgence, which I "justified" by purchasing with my yearly REI dividend. But... now that I have it, it has become my go-to winter stove for any trip longer than overnight. The elimination of priming and its hot output really simplifies the chore of water-making. The large pot supports are pretty nifty too, especially compared to the small-diameter xgk. And I feel better about using it in the vestibule than other stoves (but it can flare too- better to start it outside).

For all that, I only use the Muka a couple of times a year these days. Worth the price? I guess that depends on how often you need to melt gallons of water. My Muka is a bit under-utilized. But that's a good problem to work on, right?

 

Good Morning, All,

I, too, have a Muka, which I tested and for which I posted a few YT videos, and a report here. It's a great little stove, and a real powerhouse for such a small thing. I also bought mine with REI dividend money and it was worth the price, IMHO.

However, as much as I like the Muka, I still think the X-GK, properly used, can easily economically and melt plenty of snow when Winter camping and snowshoeing. I've done it many, many times over the years and the X-GK, in its many forms, has never failed me. As far as flaring, since you should start ANY stove outside the vestibule, flaring it had never been a problem for me when using an X-GK in the vestibule. I have all of the various versions and my favorite is the original Model 9 with the scalloped burner bell! Close behind that one in my favor are the GKs and early X-GKs. They also simmer better when doing actual cooking. I like all the versions but to me, the older ones have a "certain something" that makes them special to me. As Larry Penberthy designed the Model 9, and all X-GK stoves, to be snow melting volcanoes, they are still as good as they ever were, and well worth a few more ounces of weight in my pack. I don't believe in being a hard-core "gram weinie", because, in my opinion, that can be an exceedingly dangerous practice, and it's pretty easy to push the safety envelope a bit too far, which is never a good thing. Yes, it's great to keep an eye on your pack weight, as we learned on our PCT trip, back in 1991. But, we love using our gear, and for us, using our favorite gear when out and about, is part of why we enjoy being "out there" so very much.

Just a few thoughts about the Muka and X-GK stoves. If I HAD to choose between them, I'd have to take the older X-GK stoves, as I KNOW they work, and will continue to work well into the future. As for the Muka, I love it, but it's not been around long enough to prove long-term reliability in heavy use. Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

Great points Doc. No arguments that the xg(k) in its various iterations is a workhorse. Call me nitpicky, but here are the reasons that I now favor the Muka over the xg(k):

1. No priming. There is nothing to miss about priming.

2. Folds smaller due to flexible fuel line. My older xgk's solid fuel line is awkward to pack, and some fuel always seems to dribble out along the cable-wick after packing.

3. Larger diameter pot supports. Less chance of a spilled water pot.

These little things tip the scale in favor of the Muka for me.

I have NOT done a quantitative comparison of the two stoves. As far as I can tell, they both have enough heat output to get big melting jobs done quickly- and that's been good enough for me so far.

I would be interested to know if one stove or the other has better fuel efficiency. That is, if one boils a gallon of water with significantly less fuel within roughly the same amount of time (ie it produces similar heat output for fewer unit of fuel consumed)- as this could save weight and volume of fuel on a trip.

As far as reliability- I have not had a problem with either stove yet other than the stripped pump threads I mentioned earlier- which could occur with either stove if one is careless (as I was). Admittedly I have not used the Muka much, so my lack of problems is not definitive. The xgk has been flawless so far under lots of past use (but I dont use it at all any more. I may even have given it away...).

But as you and Ken point out, the Muka is certainly pricey. Its not for everyone as there are more economic choices that get the job done *almost* as well ;-)

The good news is that there are several good choices.

What is your go-to stove for summer trips Doc? Why?

 

Hi, Sooty,

Thanks, very much, for your comments. As to a "got to" stove for Summer camping, hiking, and backpacking, I have far too many favorites to be able to pick just one stove for such adventures!! 8)

I would feel quite happy with just about any stove that might "call to me", whilst getting ready for the trip. Lots of excellent choices from MSR, Coleman, Optimus, Primus, Radius, Trangia, and many more.

If I were going to be making miles, say, up in the High Sierra, I'd very probably choose the MSR Universal, as it uses three kinds of fuels, and covers plenty of bases in that regard, and it simmers quite nicely. Resupply points can be few and far between on such a trip, and I'd like the ability to change fuels, is that became necessary.

If the trip was just going to be a 3-4 day event, or less, I'd happily choose a Sievert SVEA 123, 8R/99, 199, Trangia, or even my Sigg Jet Fire, on which Presscall so kindly changed the fuel line, and connections, so I can use it with various fuels, and with a metal pump!

If I were limited to Meths as my fuel, I'd be happy, and completely trust, either my Optimus Trapper 81, or a Trangia 27 or 25. If weight was a special consideration, or I was trying to go as light as possible, I'd take my Clik-stand Trangia, and be as happy as a clam!

Sorry I couldn't boil it down to just one stove. I love them all, and feel that my stove stable can offer up just about anything I'd ever need, for any situation I'd encounter in the wilderness, or even in my own local forest! 8) Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

One difference I believe with the MUKA vs the XGK (I only know the old ones) is that the XGK and its previous versions were always field maintainable. With all the parts to the MUKA, I suspect that to be less the case.
I am basing this on the great dis-assembly done by Presscall of the MUKA and all the times I have worked on the MSR versions.
I don't mind priming, I wait a few seconds for my diesel before I start it.

Ken in NC

 

I am not familiar with Presscall's disassembly. Is there a post? Pics? Thanks for a link.

I have never tried to disassemble or service the Muka. Looks like it could be trouble.

I agree with you that the xg(k) is very field serviceable (just dont drop a wee part). I have field stripped mine out of curiosity- but honestly I never had had to do any repairs to mine other than replace age-cracked O-rings. (well, ok, and get a new pump body to replace the one whose threads I chingered- but that was not a field repair).

I am hoping that the Muka proves to be as reliable as the xgk. I dont have any cause to distrust it (so far). Has anyone had any problems with their Muka?

 

I agree with Doc- there are many fun stove choices for fair-weather camping. My faves:

* Evernew Ti alcohol burner. I love this 2 oz stove. Boils 2 cups of water with no fuss, and that's all I need. My preferred stove if any weight at all is being carried over multiple days.

* MSR Whisperlite Universal: (I think this was just called a "whisperlight" at the time I acquired it years ago). Anyway, the canned-fuel version. This stove simmers, so it comes along when my GF does. Her simmered meals are worth the extra ounces. Good for any trip less than 4 days (the lifespan of a fuel canister).

* 8R: I use this out of pure sentimentality. I love the ritual of using it. We go back 30+ years. Great any time there is a base-camp situation. I also use it on motorcycle trips as I can just steal gas from the bike's tank as needed.

* 00, and 71L in original cooking-box: such cool stoves! One of these comes along for picnics, canoeing/kayaking, and vintage bike trips (since they are in character). I have collected a few other stoves now that could be just as good in this category- but I have only just become interested in collecting- so more to follow.

* Coleman 413E: car trips.

* Jetboil: perfect for day-trips when convenience trumps everything. I take it on cold day-hikes, scrambles, glacier climbs, snowshoeing, nordic skiing, any bad-weather trip, etc when you just want hot tea and you need it fast and super simple.

Jeez- how many stoves does a person need?

 

Just one more.
Here is the ... Link

Ken in NC

 

Thanks for the link ken. Great review presscall. The muka seems to be a bit of a Thoroughbred...