Hi Will: Joe Pagen's stove was sold and purchased by a fellow that converted to a early #1. When it was first posted it had the late #2 attached oven and a non air screw tank which did not say pat. applied for. so I assume the top lid and tank were replaced. As for a definitive time line of features of the #1 and #2, there is no such thing. The #2 came out as the #1 was still in production and parts were swapped back and fourth. There are three versions of the #1 and also three versions of the #2 and for a while the were all produced at the same time, according to Coleman these variants were not official they just got assembled that way with available parts at the time of assembly. This info came from piles of paperwork I got from Coleman and their historian during my research from the late 1960's through the early 1990's Mike...
Will, By Pat. applied for, I thought you were referring to the tank. As for the brass tag, they were used through out production long after patent was finalized. Tags can also be replaced. Mike...
Mike, well fair enough, any brass tags may have been used after Patents were granted. That could have happened. However, Coleman took the time declare their Model #1 as "Patent Applied For" on their first brass tags. Then took the time to have new brass tags made with the newly acquired Patent Dates (3). Then took the time to drill out the model #1 numeral and hand stamp #2 in its place. And they took the time to have new tags made with subsequent model numbers. Logic suggests that Coleman cared a lot, and likely were very diligent putting the right tag on the right unit in timeline fashion. Would you not agree? Also, where are the earlier posts about Joe's #1 stove? Thanks, Will
@flivver ,@Flintstone Morning, Mike, Will, and All, Excellent comments, and spot on the money, Mike!! Like you, and many others of our Fellow Stovies here, I very much look forward to my new Coleman book arriving in the Post soon. I am certain that it will be a wonderful source of much-needed knowledge of "things Coleman"! However, I am pretty sure there will be some mistakes in the book, too, and so, the book will still not answer every single question we have! If I may muse about the "thirst for knowledge" for a bit, please indulge me: It seems to me, that many of our younger members, who don't have a ton of "years" under their belts yet, believe that ALL answers to ALL questions can be found with a few clicks of the mouse, on the internet today. Unfortunately, the 'net can oft-times be the source for tons of misinformation, and distortions in the "facts" that it many times offers as "truth". I give, as one prime example, the rather interesting case of the MSR X-GK family of stoves. I have done much study on the dating of the various models in that venerable group of stoves, and was also very much into stoves during the time that many of the various models were offered, one after another. I own every single model of the X-GK, including the Patriarch of the MSR X-GK line, the wonderful Model 9! I also own every single pump that MSR ever offered, beginning with those from the Model 9. (By the way, the #9 had TWO pumps during it's early years, as the original proved not to be very reliable nor safe!). I have had many deep discussions with Folks at MSR, from Mike Ridout, who was our contact during our first 850 mile backpack of the Pacific Crest Trail, to Drew Keegan, who is the current Gentleman in charge of Stove Development at MSR. One thing has become very clear, indeed: People are STILL misinterpreting the factual dating of those MSR stoves!!! Some otherwise absolutely WONDERFUL reports have been created and posted on the "net, and here at CCS, detailing lots of very definitely stated information..... however, some of those posts are off by 10 years, or more!!! Over time, we continue to learn more, and at least for MSR, the truth is now, very slowly, unfolding before us. But, facts from the stoves of other manufacturers remain illusive and scarce. Newbies seem to feel that, if one thing is found on something that was supposedly later in manufacturing time, then that proves that one model was the same as another. This is incorrect, and thinking like that takes us on yet another dead-end journey! Look at Optimus/Primus/Radius/Sievert. Each was a separate and independent company during their time, and each ended up being absorbed and transitioned into one single brand: Optimus! When the other companies came under the umbrella of Optimus, tons of parts, burners, tanks, etc., came to Optimus, too. Does anyone think, for even one second, that Opti did not USE those parts in their then current stove offerings???!!! You BET they used them! And, no differentiation was made between a part from, say, Primus, and the same basic part from Optimus, or any other of the Optimus-owned offerings! So, we sometimes see, today, an Optimus stove, with a Primus burner, or an Optimus-Primus burner, with parts used, as needed, until the stores were exhausted. That makes finding exact dates of this, or that, a bit confusing, and convoluted. It's only through YEARS of dedicated, in-depth, hard research, that "the truth" has been found. CCS is, without question, the preeminent repository for Stove information, history, and fettling. Most of us know, that NONE of us will ever know "everything", and the study and research will continue, long past our own time on the Mortal Coil!! Hey, that's part of the fun of it all!! In closing, I want to relate one other thing that may, or may not, be of some use here in offering some sharp focus on the search for "absolute knowledge": Most of you know that I am a very serious student of 18th century surgical techniques, original implements, and medicine. I own a fine library of original medical books, dating all the way back to 1638, and I have read and studied each one of them in an effort to understand, and inculcate the medical knowledge and skills that were the "State of the Art", back in the 18th century, and a bit before. I own a huge set of original medical implements from that time, and can describe, in great and vivid detail, every single operation, from beginning to end, that was commonly done during that time. I have been a member of the San Bernardino Medical Society, and, was, in fact, their keynote speaker at their annual meeting in 2005. I functioned as a Consultant on the history of medicine in the 18th century, and it was my honor to be a part of that august group during the time I was a member. I have also offered seminars and presentations all over the US, at schools, Historical Societies, The Ronald Reagan Presidential Library, and also places like Colonial Williamsburg, Fort Ticonderoga, Fort Niagara, and many other locations. Do you think, after all that learning and research that I know it all about this topic? If you do, then you are very sadly mistaken!! In point of fact, I personally feel that I've only just begun to scratch the surface of everything still left undiscovered and unknown about this amazing subject!!!! As it is in my thirst for medical knowledge, and history, and many other things, including stoves, there will ALWAYS be something left to learn. None of us will live long enough to "know it all". And, trying to come up with an exact timeline of what happened, to which item, and when, is really little more than tilting at windmills, and can, in fact, end up offering flawed information. More knowledge is learned every single day. It's best to have patience, continue to learn as much as you can, and enjoy the journey, safe in the absolute knowledge that we will always have more to learn!! End of rant, I hope that helps those that seek absolutes. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Doc. I agree it is easier to ask questions or click a mouse than do one's own research. Will, I don't mind questions but it now appears you are trying to reinvent the wheel. I am not a debater. I am not at all upset just need a break from typing. Mike...
Ok fellas, I want to thank you for the opportunity to ask my questions and express my thoughts and theories on these great early Coleman stoves and I look forward to doing it again sometime. Have a good day. Cheers, Will
Will, Would you please post detailed photos of your #1 and tell us how you acquired it, how about a flame shot too. Pictures are what we live for. Thanks Mike...
Hi, Will, It's grand to have "thoughts and theories" on stoves of any stripe. However, as you only have 9 posts, and have spent very little time here on CCS, reading the tons of excellent information that is available here, in the Reference Gallery and Library, you have not made an effort to learn much, IMHO. Instead, you seem to have come here with an already-believed agenda, and your questions point very strongly to this. When I first found this forum, many years ago, I did not post for a very, very long time. Instead, I spent my time, reading, studying, and learning, to add the knowledge I had already gained in this hobby on my own. I certainly respected the comments made by those who were here before me, and do NOT engage in what I call, "Yes, but......" types of questions, as you have done. I asked you to post detailed photos of your #1, and you posted two, very small photos, which very well could have been taken from some 'net site, and no comments at all on your history with this stove, or any other stove, for that matter. This shows me that, rather than come to CCS to be a part of the forum, you came with the agenda that I mentioned above. Without proper respect, for those who are your elders in this wonderful hobby, you will never "learn" anything. So, I have to wonder about the real motives you have for posting here. Writing a stove blog, maybe....? It's been done before. Writing a "definitive book on stoves"....? It's already been done, other than the actual fact that NO book, nor blog, is going to really be definitive, as there is always something left to learn!! Whatever the case, you have not even tried to be a good, productive member here, so far, and that is a real shame. You have asked questions, and we have answered them. Yet, rather than be happy with that, you continue to pick the scab, and ask the same questions, again, over, and over. I must, therefore, conclude that you are engaging in fallacious syllogism, only, and that this is, indeed, your goal here. Sorry, we don't do that, as it is a total and complete waste of time, both for us, and for you. I suggest you buy the new Coleman book, and also the old "green one", and spend some time reading, studying, and learning from them. Then, read every single thing in the Library that has been posted and peruse the excellent posts in the Gallery. Then, you will be ready to share your "thoughts and theories" with us. That's what the rest of us have done, and continue to do. Food for thought, on this Valentine's Day. Take care, and God Bless! Respectfully, Doc
and he will probably never post again. Quite often over at the CCF we get people like Will every once in a while, they try the same thing, know it alls, in the end the stove/lamp/etc ends up on the Bay. They were only fishing for details for listing their GPA kind regards on this very wet/cool Wet Coast of Canada day Jan
Evening, Jan, You may be right. It is always a shame to have someone come in, already looking for a fight, or argument. Most of the time, that is the hallmark of a very young person, who thinks they know more than they actually do, and who have very little actual life experience. If he chooses to leave CCS, that is his decision, and also his great loss, IF he is actually interested in stoves. But, I fear you are right, and he never wanted to learn anything, anyway..... sigh...... Such is life, I guess. Thanks for the shout, and talk to you later! God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Doc,Jan; I hope we are all wrong about this. Younger folks don't think like us and go about things the same as us older farts. Maybe he will settle down ask thoughtful questions post pictures and become a contributing appreciated member of our community. I hope so. Mike...
I hope so as well, we need younger people to carry on and preserve this great part of history regards Jan
Hi all. New here. I'm an avid Coleman white gas user. Love the sound and smell..... I found an old Model #1 stove today at a yard sale and grabbed it for 25 bucks. I oiled the pump and went at it. The tank pressurized nicely after I figured out the NRV. I could hear the air hissing through the burners. I don't know if I want to restore, or sell. Whats the best market? Happy to be here!
Welcome to CCS. What a nice find. I wish I had that luck. As a site policy we do not give valuations. That said, it is quite difficult anyway. Too many variables. One day can be completely different than another. I would suggest starting a search for completed sales on eBay first. but, it may not be a common enough stove to show up in that search. Much like the Tilly Sportsmans Kit I found. Searching did not help me or the seller set a price. Would you take a few minutes and post some photos in the Stove reference Gallery section? ... https://classiccampstoves.com/categories/the-stove-reference-gallery.2/ ... We love photos of stoves, and rare ones even more. Ken in NC
I sure will post some pics. Yeah, I know valuing these things is fairly subjective.....it's just a really neat stove. I really get a kick out of actually interacting with my equipment. Seems everything made these days is disposable and people just don't have an understanding of the value of "real" things. Anyway, no soapboxing! I'll see if I can figure out how to post a pic of it. Thanks for responding!!
These stoves are really nice. I saw one a couple years ago at a coleman meet. The oven rack is missing (?). There is a discussion in the subsciber section about making a rack for these stoves. Thanks for the picture. Ken in NC
Yes, you're right, the oven rack is missing. Other than that, it seems very complete. I will research it and look forward to using it in the field. It is just so neat. I'll post a flame on pic when I get there.
