Hi everybody, Why adjusting mechanism takes place very near to jet on adjustable burners? I of course aware of its working principle wihich is common on lanterns and blowtorchs as well. Instead, what happens if we place a valve on the rise tube. I think such a valve can also help us control of flow rate to the burner. Necessary modification can be carried out much more simpler. I ask this because, there is no possibility to change conventional burner to adjustable one and adjusting function is what every body would like to have. Awaiting for your comments.
It's simple to control a kero burner with the pressure in the tank. Let some pressure out and the flame gets lower. Pump it up and the flame gets stronger. Or am I missing something here?
Henry of course you right. But decreasing pressure in the tank does not allow flame to continue in lower mode long time. You have to check stove continuously. Some times you can see that stove dies out and so much actions to get it burned again. The logic behind my proposal is to keep the tank pressured similar to kero lanterns without need to pump occasionally.
That's the way I do it, although maintaining a very low flame for long periods can be tricky sometimes.
sefaudi, what you are asking for is alredy made :-) If I understood you, you want to keep a high preassure on the tank, and a low preassure on the fuel system. Isnt that the prinsiple of most MSR 8as the whisperlight??
Runegutt, thank you for your advise. But the matter is to modify an old stove, optimus 1S, brass tank, to an adjustable type. Let's change wording of the question as "why do manufacturers prefer manufacturing very complex shaped burners in order to allow flame adjustability? Isn't it much more simple to put a valve on rise tube?" If I could collect positive comments, I may attempt to cut rise tube to put a valve. I do not know whether I could mention my question clearly.
Ok, but I think the reason this isnt done before is: You will loose preassure, and the combustion will be un-complete. If you test one of those modern stoves, you will fing out, that the ones who have a regulator on the tank cant burn on low effect for long. The burner will clogg up. But what the.... Test, and find out. I am ready to be wrong :-)
If you were prepared to change the roarer burner for a silent burner you would not need to start cutting your stove. Adjustable silent burners are readily available, it is adjustable roarers that are difficult to obtain.
My only dificulty w/ simmering for long periods of time w/ my 210s is after about 3-5 min. I have to bleed off some pressure that built up. 96s on the other hand, (don't get me wrong, I love the lil buggers) can't hold a simmer for squat w/out going out or you constantly pump, reliese, pump etc. I did that w/ a stew; Every thing tasted great, except the stew meat, it tasted like ash.
In America we have what's called the "KISS" principle. The letters stand for "Keep It Simple, Stupid." I don't want to sound insulting, but the reason pressure stoves work as well as they do is their inherent simplicity. Once you begin adding "features" you necessarily add complexity. Murphy, the author of Murphy's Law loves complexity. Murphy's Law: In any field of human endeavor anything that can go wrong will go wrong. Murphy's first corollary: Each added feature increases the rate of failure by a factor of one hundred. 2nd. corollary: If several things can go wrong, the most expensive and/or difficult to remedy will go wrong first. Nordicthug
I think the reason that any adjustment device is towards the top of the vapouriser is down to volume. The liquid fuel enters the bottom of the vapouriser and is turned, by to heat, to a gaeous condition at some point higher in the tube; the gas is many times the volume of the liquid (hundreds, I guess, but does any one know?) and therefore the flow is much higher. It is far easier to mdoerate the rate of flow of the gas than the liquid fuel; the flow of the latter is far too small to throttle back accurately. You would, in effect, be trying to repalce the gas jet with a liquid fuel jet further down the system and with an even more miniscule hole. It would be very liable to blockage.
I think the reason that any adjustment device is towards the top of the vapouriser is down to volume. The liquid fuel enters the bottom of the vapouriser and is turned, by to heat, to a gaeous condition at some point higher in the tube; the gas is many times the volume of the liquid (hundreds, I guess, but does any one know?) and therefore the flow is much higher. It is far easier to mdoerate the rate of flow of the gas than the liquid fuel; the flow of the latter is far too small to throttle back accurately. You would, in effect, be trying to repalce the gas jet with a liquid fuel jet further down the system and with an even more miniscule hole. It would be very liable to blockage.
Thanks a lot Ian, With your comments I noticed that, flow rate in rise tube is much more low. So, changing gap of valve (to be placed on the tube) will give a late response. Mean while, I agree, I will need a valve with high sensitivity. As a result I changed my mind and decided to finish this project even without doing any physical action. By the way, I would like to thank to other participants for their help based on the laws of Murphy .
You cannot imagine how I became happy. Please open the link shown below. The picture shows the mechanism that is fully same with my thought. With the needle valve one can adjust the flame level without releasing pressure. In fact I later on noticed that this mechanism is widely used on most of Petromex stoves. Thanks every body but special thanks to Petromax. I realised that I am not alone. Now I am going to search for a similar needle valve and make necessary modification on one of my stoves. Link .
A picture tells thousand words! In this case, One picture spoke with authority for every one! I, for one, noticed that the longer the control valve is removed from the burner, the more difficulty it had simmering: e.g., Whisperlite, Multi Fuel, etc. That is why Nova and Omni design allows a fine simmering capability, by placing the valve control right next to the burner body. However, for a brass stove, even though the valve control is placed very near the burner, the burner is more exposed to open ambience by design, and this causes rapid loss of heat from the burner body (one reason why Whisperlite Internationale 600 has difficulty with using kerosene). I think the problem of difficulty in maintaining the steady simmering flame level will persist, no matter how fine the simmering control the valve on the riser provides. My two cents! bark2much
If having the control so far from the burner proves to be a problem, perhaps the fitting of a heat deflector between valve and tank may help to keep the valve/burner assembly nice and hot. Running the stove hot and hard for a few minutes before demanding fine control may also help.
Dear Bark2much, Thank you for your advise. At any rate, I will apply this project and see what happens. On the other hand I believe this valve will allow me to get my brass stove any where without emptying the tank. Because as you know there is no possiblity to close the release valve while travelling which causes some leakage from the jet due to the pressure caused by temperature changes. Since I prefer travelling with my car which has a enaugh place to carry my stove. I do not need to disassemble my stove like optimus 45. If the project fails I will send 2 cents immediately. .
