Greetings, Lads, I have noted, before, my distain for the plastic pumps that MSR furnish with their stoves. Up until a few years ago, I had had no problems with them. But, then one broke, exactly as are many others that have been on the market for a while. OK, I understand that things break, if you use them long enough. This, however, caused me to rethink the entire idea of making a pump out of plastic, and I no longer trust any of my MSR stoves, with their plastic pumps! But, last night, before bedtime, I dug out my almost brand new Dragonfly stove, along with my Optimus Nova, intent on working up a test of the two, side by side. I've used the Dragonfly only a few times, but guess what? The one of the damned plastic tabs on the plastic pump had ALREADY broken!!!!!!!!!!! I bought this stove from REI, and am going to take it back, as soon as possible, and DEMAND a brand new (improved) pump for it!!!! But, getting to an REI is not easy, when you live up in the mountains, and do not regularly venture down onto the flat. So, when I do go down, I'm afraid that some poor bastard from REI will have to listen to my ranting (done in a polite manner, mind you), about how the quality of MSR has gone completely down the toilet since REI bought that company!!!! GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! The windscreen and heat reflector on this stove have never even been unfolded! That's how new it is, and how little it's been used!!!! So, it broke, pretty much, right out of the box, when it was brand new! This is completely unacceptable, and just makes me love my Nova that much more!!! If I have to shell out coin to replace every single older MSR pump that I own, that will cost a pretty penny! In the meantime, I have TONS of stoves, much older than even my oldest MSR Model 9A stove, and most all of them are still working nicely, thank you very much!!! End of rant, Lads. Just pisses in my pudding to see such shoddy work, and to endure complete parts failure on a stove that's been touted as "Expedition quality"!!! In a pig's arse!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even with a brand new, and improved, plastic pump, I wouldn't take this stove on a picnic in my driveway, much less out on a backpacking adventure!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Mark, I've been looking at this http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=300014643048&rd=1&rd=1 and the review on http://www.trekkon.tv/Wasserfilter-MSR-Miniworks.51.0.html looks good, but I am worried about the build quality of the unit Has anyone here used one, the price looks good, but, is it too good
I think the price is fantastic, as they've been selling for $84 lately. If you look at the hiking forums, it seems to have a good reputation. Just don't buy a PUR filter, they stopped making new filters for mine, the Bast@#ds. Not even a 'so sorry'!
I've never owned an MSR stove, and suppose that I never will. For me, the only stove I ever hiked with was my Optimus 45 in the mid-60s. By the late sixties I was married and had kids, and while I did lots of camping while the kids were growing, it was all Coleman suitcases. I've now hiked with classics, after I got into this hobby, but skipped the development of the modern modular hiking stove. A plastic pump just seems wrong.
Hello, Rik, I have never owned one of the MSR filters, but was mightily tempted to buy one, back when we were first shopping for a water filter. We ended up going with a Katdyn Pocket filter, and have never regretted that decision. Later, we bought a PUR Hiker, and it's been pretty good, too, though it does go through the non-cleanable filters a little too often for our tastes. When Katadyn bought PUR, they added an element that allows a little cleaning of a pre-screen on the PUR Hiker, and they call that new filter the PUR Hiker Pro. Also, they have marketed that element as a separate item, so owners of the older PUR filters can add that convenience to theirs. While it isn't a Pocket Filter, it's a step in the right direction. However, I digress.... Every single friend of ours who has bought one of the MSR Miniworks filters has been very happy with it. Like the Pocket Filter, you can clean them in the field, though I would dump that scratchy pad that comes with the filter, and just use an old toothbrush! Like the one that comes with the Pocket Filter, that pad just wear out the filter element, and then you have to go buy a new one! Using an old toothbrush, instead, gets the filter just as clean, and doesn't scratch off the element, itself. Based on the reviews of many folks I trust, I'd say the Miniworks is a fine filter, and should work perfectly for a very long time. And one huge plus for that filter, in my opinion, is that you can screw it right onto your water bottle and not spill one, precious drop of water!! I remember one frustrating day in the Mojave Desert, when Sweet Bride and I had stopped to pump water out of the LA Aquaduct (which was an adventure in itself). After I'd painstakingly pumped up four quarts of water, the wind came up and knocked over several of the bottles, on which I'd stupidly not replaced the lids!! OH, Well......., too soon old, too late smart!! Hope that helps. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark P.S Steve, which PUR filter do you have? As far as I know, Katadyn is still offering replacement cartridges for most of the older PUR filters.
Hey, Ed, I agree with you, 100%. After I posted my original note this morning, I called REI. A very nice lady told me that, no matter when I bought that stove, if I bought it from them, they would replace the pump, with the newer, upgraded model, at no charge. Though the stove has a five year warranty from MSR, REI has a lifetime satisfaction guarantee, and it covers that stove. Odd, huh??!! They are parts of the same company. So, I will get a new, and better pump for that Dragonfly, and see how it works. If it does seem to work, I may spring for two others, so that my Firefly, and my most favorite X-GK can have new, beefier, pumps. Other than that, I've decided that all the rest of my MSR stoves, are officially retired, and all my yellow bodied pumps, my black and grey bodied pumps, and my red and blue bodied pumps, will NEVER be used again. They are now just for show, as they cannot hack the "go"!!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
Hi doc, i've got a PUR pioneer, filters are non existant since katadyn took over. if i ever get another one, It would be the miniworks. slick unit !!!
Hey, Steve, Thanks for letting me know about that. I have never heard of the PUR Pioneer. When did they make that? Oh, I remember, that was the water filter that Christopher Columbus used on his voyages!!!! 'Bout time to get a new one, don'cha think, Steven???!!! The MSR Miniworks would be an outstanding choice, as would the PUR Hiker Pro, or for that matter, our much-loved Katadyn Pocket Filter. I would NOT buy the Katadyn Mini Filter, if they even still offer it. TOO SLOW, even though it weighs very little!! If you can't pump at least a quart a minute, look at other filters. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
The problem is workmanship vs costs of labour and material, and it's universal. Not only my stoves, but all my bicycles are old stock as well, simply because modern bicycles can't withstand the treatment they're subjected to by me. Note that this treatment is heavy only to present standards my (old timer) bicycle shop fully agrees, and would actually refuse to sell me a modern bike, because he knows best that I'd return it in no time.
I have a number of MSR stoves, some of which I've used under pretty severe conditions, and I've never had a pump problem, other than the damn fuel line o-ring. That said, I feel the same sort of uneasiness about the plastic as others have expressed on this forum. On snow trips, I usually take along a spare pump in the extra fuel bottle, for the peace of mind, as much as for the convenience. "One of these days" I'm going to put together an adapter to run MSR stoves from a Primus or Optimus pump (unless another forum member beats me to it ). The MSR Waterworks and older Miniworks filters have a good reputation, and are as easy as any to use. They do have more moving parts than the Pur or Sweetwater designs, which makes them more prone to mischief from Mr. Murphy. I was on one trip where a friend's Waterworks gave up the ghost, but we had another filter in the group, so no worries. Had my friend brought along his repair kit, we could have fixed it. ....Arch
Never owned or seen any of them in the fleash but for me (own opinion only) Plastic may be lighter but never have like it much. Just the thought of not being able to solder up a joint with a hot nail or wire leaves me cold. Or have a go anyway!! Looks like you two want and adaptor for your stoves then. If you can post some close ups and some specs!! Some silly buggar may me able to figure out something!! Why not change to one hose fitting for the lot and be done with it. Use what ever stove you want with what ever pump you chose. After you done it ArchMc can you do one for me!!! But then I'll have to but a decent stove and fuel bottle to put them on!! 8)
Fuel pumps that break, water that needs filtering if you want to avoid the Plague (or even just a good ole dose of our friend giardia, I'm convinced olympic sprint times could be improved no end by dosing the runners water bottles 3-7days before the main event, have to time it right tho) carnivorious critters lurking in the under growth that nessessitates packing heat....come over here, team, most of the streams are (mostly) safe(ish) to drink and the only thing that will disturb your sleep will be a possum doing a hairy impersonation of Moon the Loon on your dirty Trangia pots. Meths is freely available all over at $5-$7 a liter 8)
Fuel pumps that break, water that needs filtering if you want to avoid the Plague (or even just a good ole dose of our friend giardia, I'm convinced olympic sprint times could be improved no end by dosing the runners water bottles 3-7days before the main event, have to time it right tho) carnivorious critters lurking in the under growth that nessessitates packing heat....come over here, team, most of the streams are safe(ish) to drink and the only thing that will disturb your sleep will be a possum doing a hairy impersonation of Moon the Loon on your dirty Trangia pots. Meths is freely available all over at $5-$7 a liter 8)
" carnivorious critters lurking in the under growth that nessessitates packing heat....come over " I've never conncerned myself with the carnivorous critters, the four leggers anyway. It's the two legged predators who might need some judicious priority realignment easiest done with a display of force. The delicious four leggers and feathered two leggers don't necessitate packing heat, but it sure makes inviting one or two to be the honored guests at luncheon a lot easier. Fried rabbit or grouse, with fresh baking powder bisquits and gravy, mmmm-mmmm. Gerry
That is the question. Hmmm. Stoves wise it's not as clear cut as it seems. For instance my old Primus 71 is still going strong and I can't see it ever breaking or falling apart. My new Optimus Nova is a great stove. Well made from good materials. I can see that still working in fifty years time. My old Sunbeam motorcycle, 1928. Lovely original paintwork. Alloys and metals excellent. My Suzuki GSXR-1000? The engine is mechanically a work of art. Goes like stink and can rev to 12,000rpm without a problem BUT the cycle parts won't last more than 15-20 years at best. I have old SW valve radios. Still working since the 1960's. Modern SW radios from a few years ago? I doubt it. Some have already broke My modern Nikon digital camera? I'll give it five years max'. My old Praktica SLR from 1977? Still going strong after thousands of photos. Maybe MSR just made lots of junk? Discuss. Regards, Alan
Good Morning, Friends, Everyone has had wonderful input in this thread! I agree that, today, it seems practical and necessary, from the manufacturers point of view, to create a product that will require replacement at some time in the future. In the "old days", products were made to last for much, much longer. I have quite a few 18th century pocket watches, and even one from the late 17th century. Guess what? They STILL WORK!! 8) 8) I have a Queen Anne screwbarrel pistol that was made between 1710-1720, and guess what? It still works! Fast forward to the 20th century: we all have stoves that were made, back when it was "normal" to manufacture products to last for a reasonable time, and guess what? They still work! Yesterday, I even dug out my old The North Face Back Magic backpack, and it's as good as the day I bought it, USED, and will offer many more years of service. My old Canon FtbN, mechanical camera still works, and even though not as "convenient" as my Nikon 4500 Coolpix digital camera, it still takes superb photographs, if I do my part. I have JBL loudspeaker components that were made in the 1960-1970's....still work. But, somewhere in the mid-20th century "planned obsolescence" began to creep into our consciousness!! I seriously doubt that much of the stuff that's made today will still be working 300 years from now.....200? 100? 50? How about NEXT WEEK????!!!! Arch, like you, I had never had an MSR pump problem, though I'd heard of others who had endured such. Then, it happened to me. Then it happened again, this time with a brand new stove!! So, even though you, personally, have never had a problem, I will wager a large sum of money that you WILL have one, someday. Bet your Optimus 00 will not give you such problems, not now, not in three years, not in 100 years!! Change a pump bucket leather, now and then, keep the jet clean, and the stove will do what it was made to do, for many, many years, far after all our MSR stoves have gone to the junk bin!!! This is why I'm so keen on the Optimus Nova, and other such stoves. It seems that at least SOME manufacturers are still trying to make a better product. Will the Nova last as long as it's ancestors? I seriously doubt it. But, at least it should give good service for many years, unlike many of it's contemporaries. The Nova has already earned my respect and trust, and like the Trangia stoves, I expect it will perform for a very long time. I look forward to seeing, exactly, how good the new, beefier MSR pumps are, and then will decide whether any of my MSR stoves will ever be used again. I hope the new pumps are good, because I love my X-GK and my Firefly stoves!!! But, if push comes to shove, and the new pumps are just more plastic trash, such as MSR has made to date, I will retire ALL of my MSR stoves, and not hesitate to let others know of my decision to do so! Crappy products, which do not last, do not deserve our respect, nor our support!! If every outdoor enthusiast in the world stopped using MSR stoves tomorrow, you can bet your sweet bippy that MSR would design and manufacture a brand new, all metal stove pump, in a heartbeat!!!!! Hummmmmmmm....... I'll let you all know how the new MSR pumps work, and if they appear to be better built than any of the older ones. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc Mark
The MSR pump design is a good one for the once or twice a year backpacker. Nothing made primarily of plastic could be considered for heavy use. I have a very old Whisperlight that I carried in my pack for solo camping and hunting trips and never had any problem with it, but as you stated it would happen sooner or later. This year it was retired and replaced by a Svea 123. I don't think I will ever sell the MSR as we are old friends and I will enjoy starting it up once in a while for old times sake, but the 123 will be my pack stove for the forseeable future. The 123 was put to use two days ago. We had back to back cold fronts and South Texas was windy and cold. With all my warm clothing on I was able to stand three hours in a deer blind before the cold became uncomfortable. I lit the 123 in the blind and made a cup of coffee and had a couple of Pop Tarts and let the little stove warm up the blind for about twenty minutes. That little break gave me another couple of hours of stand time.
Pump hose.......+ Coupling .... hose......quickcoupling....stove. ...................................... ....................... male coupling......quick coupling different stove type. Nuff Said!
One of the things MSR did with their filters that was very clever was to make a water bag that screwed directly onto the filter unit. That way you do not need someone to hold the water container as the other person does the pumping and you don't need to worry about spilling. I believe others have made adapters for Nalgene bottles along the way, but MSR's initial idea made a lot of sense. One system from the stream into the container.
