I have seen the Winter Pump on the MSR website https://www.msrgear.com/stoves/arctic-fuel-pump probably same as posted by Snwcmpr. My current pumps have been good to 0 degrees F, since I bought them. KM
Yow! I think I might be sleeping with the fuel bottle to keep the pump warm, and keeping it in my parka by day. Maybe these are the conditions the new pump are designed for. Again, it would be nice if MSR made a clearer statement about this. ....Arch
Well, I don't think this would work because at some point you must remove the pump from a warm place (while cooking), and it will become cold pretty quickly. It might be possible to take it together with the bottle and put it under the parka or any clothes, but it would require a long pipe that connects the pump with the burner - this would not work for many stoves.
a good idea to know what your stove seals are made of, a colleague salvaged an engine from a burned out car and hoped to get it stripped and rebuilt at a local garage - 'no chance' said the mechanic - he cited health and safety concerns regarding high temperature o rings in engines which apparently degrade when burnt releasing corrosive compounds - these can burn skin in a similar fashion to phosphrous it seems. i do not claim to know if the above is true or the bloke just did not want the work, but i do recall hearing something similar years ago so perhaps these seals are not what you want on a stove, i must admit to being a bit heavy handed with the priming at times after a swift libation or two
viton does contain flourocarbon so technically that claim is correct although I think he was grasping at straws. Far more likely he didnt want comebacks if it didnt work. The heat could of distorted the block and head so he could of been spending several hours plus parts on a useless engine and his chances of being paid were low
All: Much obliged on the explanation of the Arctic MSR pump. I only use my MSR for snow-melting, have tried to get out of it for years, I use alcohol the rest of the year. I just 'bailed' on a long range winter bike trip today when I realized the 1990 MSR plastic pump head was leaking. I had all the difficulties mentioned above assembling it to stove head, including spitting, and this at only -5C! Managed to eke out 3L of water from 6L of compressed snow in a Wabash popcorn popper pot, but that took 300ml of fuel, much of that in a leak! No option in a still frozen subartic environment. Got home and discovered my stove pump is too ancient for the Expedition Maintenance Kit, so I will be buying a new pump. Haknut's illustration of the Norwegian Army spares kit is very useful, as MSR and our Mtn Equip. Co-op say very little about the Arctic Pump; the Norwegian army kit includes both regular and arctic types of O rings, which implies the Arctic ones are truly for cold temperatures...the idea of having both pumps on 2 bottles as a spare is useful as I travel with 2 335ml MSR bottles as they fit in the pot better than a larger one...hm..... I have seen images of a stove board to which the MSR Whisperlite was attached, zip tied down in a semi-permanent manner, so all the user has to do is pump, open the valve and prime....again purportedly for the Norwegian army, I will have to consider doing something similar....
The blue o-rings are very likely fluorosilcone. They have similar applications as Viton (very likely what the other brown o-rings are), but with an extended lower operating temperature and a softer durometer rating. This same kind of question comes up all the time regarding seal replacement in Peak 1 lanterns, which I'm going to do this weekend. They came with blue o-rings, but common Viton is rated fine for temperatures above 0°F and it's more durable.
i am never likely to experience such low temperatures but i have to ask why the nrv pip seems to be the same stuff for both so why not use that to make the o rings incidently the new msr multi tool thingy makes a half decent beer bottle opener in an emergency
I wish I had read Doc's posting on the importance of replacing older MSR pumps in 2006... I actually managed to break one of the brand-new 2017 MSR Standard fuel pumps, not being rough with it, but just by unscrewing the brass collar that holds the fuel control valve assembly. Oh dear, easily cross-threaded as it is brass on plastic threads! No, I am not a born stove-fettler, but I figured it was best to do all 8 steps in the MSR instructions to see how to replace all of the parts...I won't do that again! I do have the Arctic Stove Head on order from Mountain Equipment Co-Op, and will start the practice of keeping 2 stove heads with me as bottle caps for my twin 335ml bottles, when I do snow-melting trips. If one stove head breaks, then I can switch to the other...one stove head will be the Arctic one, so hoping for maybe a bit more robustness! Whilst sitting on a foam pad on the almost-end-of-winter snow in my tiny yard, running fuel through the MSR fuel line, pricking the jet, etc, I must admit that I broke out my Meta-50, which silently (and undemandingly!) melted corn-snow and boiled it to heat a retort pouch Indian curry boil in the bag entré for a hot lunch. I could almost hear the valve-less, 'no moving parts' 1930's design, Meta-50, fitted with a Ti alcohol burner and carbon felt insulation, sneering at its new, more complicated MSR cousin!
All: I have learned much here about MSR stove pumps....thanks all! Canada's Mountain Equipment Co-Op now has a pallet-load of the MSR Arctic Stove Pumps, and I should have one via backorder within a couple of weeks. Cascade Designs-MSR suggested that I give them a ring about an Arctic Stove Pump spares kit, which I have ordered from MSR. The Arctic Pump Spares kit, was 17$CAN 13$US, including postage, so I went that route. In the meantime, here at 60N 136W, there is now liquid water around here and there at lower elevations, so I am shifting over to carrying my usual alcohol Tri-Ti stove+TI solo cup, as we're unlikely to have to melt snow for drinking water now.
I've used a WhisperLite since 1993... changing pumps over the years as needed, I think I'm on no. 4 now. Summer & winter, down to about -30C, outdoors and in caves. One 4-week spring trip (-30C -> 0C) on Ellesmere Island, where we were really depending on it (the spare one never got unpacked). One thing I stopped doing early on was disconnecting the stove from the pump. Simply strapping the folded-up burner head to the fuel bottle with a rubber band or strap works perfectly for me, and it avoids all the problems associated with the disassembly and reassembly - residual fuel dripping out, fighting with O-rings, introducing dirt into the hose. There is a cleaning needle in the nozzle assembly and that has been enough for years and years; keeping the thing assembled eliminates a major source of contamination. So I'd be interested to hear why people disassemble theirs? As for alcohol... yes, brings back fond memories of the Trangia set. But alcohol contains only a little more than half the energy of petrol, and it corrodes aluminium; more than one of my friends took out his Trangia after a couple of years on the shelf, only to discover holes in the pot from leaked fuel :-(. For me, MSR + white gas = happy.
I mostly used an X-GK on mountain trips, which doesn't pack very compactly when connected to the pump. I might have been able to figure out a packing strategy, though. It just never occurred to me. It's a much more feasible thing to do with one of the flexible-hosed stoves. ....Arch
@ArcticStoves said "...one stove head will be the Arctic one, so hoping for maybe a bit more robustness!" I understand the arctic pump to be for colder temps. I thought the orings were different. If you find it more robust, please report back.
All: MEC says they mailed the Arctic Stove Pump to me today, so with some luck it might get here early in May. As for robustness of the pump, I will try and post photos, all I know so far is that the pump piston seal (sorry I don't know the proper name for it!), is leather on the arctic version, as this remains pliable at -40C. Good tips on keeping the stove assembled; I have seen images suggesting 'stove boards' are used to zip-tie assembled MSR-XGK's to a board. This has been done for both expeditions, and prior to the Norwegian Army XGK buy, individual units within the Norwegian Army. We shall see!
All: MSR Arctic Stove Pump arrived in the post today. It has a 1990's type leather pump gasket, which likely solves all of the 'won't pump at 30 to 40 below' issues. Blue top tank gasket. I presume the rest of the gaskets are blue as well, but I am reluctant to dis-assemble the stove to see them, as I killed a Standard Pump mis-threading the shut off valve last month. Will try to post images of pump! Note leather pump gasket on 2017 Arctic Stove Pump piston, matches leather gasket of app. 1990 MSR Standard Pump Gasket, latter smaller due to wear. Both pump heads in 355ml MSR fuel bottles in 6L aluminum snow melting pot, ex-Wabash pop-corn pot with a stainless steel snare wire bail. Both pump heads, carbon felt insulated windscreen and lid, grey-brown bag is pre-shakerjet Whisperlite International head with pump grease tube. Here in the Yukon we are above freezing most nights now, so I may not be able to test the Arctic Stove Head until sometime in the fall, October. Handling the Arctic Stove Head does not show any sort of additional reinforcement or rigidity over the Standard Pump Head, so having 2 on a trip is not a bad idea!
Thanks for the information. My thoughts on your choice of redundancy ... Why not have 2 of the same type of pumps? 2 arctic pumps for cold conditions. 2 regular pumps for other than cold. A regular pump as a backup in cold conditions is a posiible proplem. And vice versa. Ken in NC
Hi Ken: Thanks for your thoughts. The reality is that I have to move everything by bicycle or on my back, so weight is an issue. If both pumps fail, I am going to have to make a fire, preferably below tree line, to melt snow for drinking water! Most of the year I use alcohol stoves which are lighter and simpler, but for this winter task, getting 4L of water from snow, white gas is still the best! Enjoy!
All: Arctic O rings from MSR were overdue, so I phoned MSR, turns out in crossing the border they somehow spent 3 weeks in our huge Canada Post parcel sorting plant in Mississauga, with some luck they should be here next week, I will send photos! Enjoy!
