Early WW2 No 3 Petrol Stove - Turley & Williams

Hello All,

I’ve just acquired this early WW2 No3 double burner... unfortunately there’s some broken inner parts... does anyone have a line on any spares please?

I’m after new needles for the jets (the ones set in long brass hexagonal type nuts) and a new spindle arm as one direction f the two has snapped off...

Kind regards,

Pete

 

Hi Pete, welcome on board!

Your N°3 is the first of its kind I see! I have 2 that are completely different from yours. I am sure someone else will come forward soon and be able to answer all your questions.

Best regards,

Wim

 

@Pete Marshall

Hi Pete,

What you have is a Turley & Williams Safety Stove. Here is a post on a single burner. @presscall stripped the stove down to it's basic parts. He also reconditioned the stove so it runs like new again. Whether it is a single or double burner it is the same principle when dismantling and reconditioning the stove. Contact John, @presscall, and he can and will be able to help you.

https://classiccampstoves.com/threa...fety-junior-portable-stove.25338/#post-258187

I also have a T & W double burner like yours but I haven't had the time to tare it down and rebuild the stove. It is sitting in my to do pile of stoves.

Cheers,
Norman

 

@Pete Marshall

I forget to mention there are no replacement parts for this stove. You may be able to fabricate most of the parts you need.

Now it is time to eat some humble pie. I offered John's help without consulting him and that was inappropriate and wrong.

Cheers,
Norman

 

Hello Norman and Wim...

Thank you for the responses...

I have a No2 MKI and a No2 MKII... both of which I restored and fettled... I also own two Hurlock stoves.

The No2 MKI I have was in a very bad way but was so simple it was easy to restore. It is a now a runner, and is actually easier to get going than any of my other stoves.

This No3 MKI is going to be a challenge. It’s now all apart which took some doing as many parts were seized solid. The main body is all galvanised under the paint which is unusual... my other military stoves were just steel... I’m sure.

The tank is painted gold but is copper...

The grille and burners may need a shot blast...

I need new needles for the the end jets x 2... and a new threaded long spindle...

Thanks for the advice, Norman... I’ll contact the chap you mentioned...

Attached is a photo of my restored No2 MKI...

I use the stoves in WW2 living history... I’ve attached some photos of this too...

If anyone has any No2 MKIs they’d like to part with, please let me know.

We use these to cook all our food on authentically...

Cheers,

Pete

 

All,

I have now finished the restoration of the No3 Stove... oddly enough it looks to have had its body galvanised at some stage... I am unsure whether this was a factory done thing... my No2 Stove wasn’t like this...

Making new jet needles was difficult and the whole thing had rusted solid... I found the breakdown of the No2 detailed new by John / presscall very useful indeed and u managed to salvage my needle nuts etc and even sourced new needle rods...

It has been steam cleaned and repainted green... the tank has been cleaned up and can be repainted also. It would appear that the original colour of it was gold... all new seals...

I will test her on ASPEN next weekend...

 

@Pete Marshall
You’ve made an absolutely grand job of the restoration Pete. Glad the strip-down of my T&W single burner stove was of help.

Looking forward to seeing the test firing.

John

 

Absolutely gorgeous!

 

Nice work, @Pete Marshall.

Cheers

Tony

 

Well, @Tony Press ... @presscall

I’ve fired her up... she works... but the pump is an absolute swine to operate. The pressure gauge works and I know the tank isn’t leaking...

However, there’s a constant hissing from the nozzle and it won’t shut off fully... I think I’m just losing too much pressure too quickly through the vapouriser tube and nozzle... with fuel in, its squirting out when the cooker is fully off...

I am thinking this is possibly due to a loss of seal through corrosion on the steel control in the brass body...

Any thoughts? I thought of wrapping it in some graphite gland sheet... to crush a better seal in place...?

 

Here’s a schematic...

 

You say fuel’s squirting out when the flame’s out - squirting out of the jet nozzle?

Lack of shut down is to do with the chamfer on the valve spindle (at the end of the threaded portion, just before where the pricker rod screws into the valve spindle not bedding against the seat. Look for nicks in the spindle chamfer or seat and maybe use a small spot of engine valve grinding paste (fine grade) to lap in valve to seat.

Another possibility is that the pricker rod isn’t screwed into the valve spindle as far as it could go and the pricker end is bottoming-out within the jet tip, holding off the valve spindle chamfer from fully mating up against the seat.

John

 

Thank you @presscall - yes I think it must be worn on the chamfer. That steel threaded rod was rusted solid on both controls when I dismantled the No3. I had to be brutal with it to clean it up and it’s rather pitted.

I will get some grinding paste.

Thanks also for the tip on the needle rod and how far it was screwed into the chamfered control... I was worried that it was too short and the brass needle nut wasn’t shutting off properly but it makes more sense that the chamfered control isn’t sitting properly with the damage...

Will have a look on Sunday. Thanks again...

Any hints on the pump? It’s such a swine to operate... really difficult to get the cooker up to pressure. There’s anew 1” cup washer on it...

Cheers,

Pete

 

Some things you might consider Pete.

First is the flexibility of the cup washer. I know you’ve said it’s new, but I’ve had new ones that are stiff and need softening with a good soaking in light oil and flexing in the fingers before installing. The efficiency with which the pump makes a seal with the bore can make all the difference.

Remove the entire pump assembly from the tank and check for any gouges in the bore and stress cracks in it (pressurise the pump under water). I had a Burmos 21 recently which had a crack in the pump tube that was above the fuel level in use. It meant that the pump tube didn’t fill with fuel but leaked pressurised air into the pump and out. It made pressurising the tank less efficient and lost what pressure could be gained.

Another possibility is to check the action of the non-return valve. There’s no need to have a spring that’s too stiff. Apart from in the initial stages of pressurising the tank it’s the tank pressure that forces the NRV sealing pip against its seat. The spring makes sure there’s a non-return action at the outset of pumping but it doesn’t need to be too strong and if it is every pump stroke has to overcome the spring tension as well as the pressure building up in the tank.

Finally, check for air leaks (once you’ve fixed the fuel valve seal) by pressurising the tank and dunking the lot under water. Any loss of air - maybe from the pump-to-tank sealing washer - will work against pumping efficiency.

John

 

Thank you @presscall

I will do as you have suggested. I used a water pump washer for the pump housing seal which seems to be holding fine but it may need tightening. And by submerging the tank I’ll be able to double check everything is sealed 100%...

I had the whole thing apart for thorough cleaning as part of the restoration. The pump leather is certainly a bit stiff and I will remove it and do as you suggest. The pip for the NRV I punched from some VITON rubber sheeting.

With the NRV in place the pump is very difficult to operate and I will check the spring... it may be doing its job a little too well...

I checked the pump housing and it is undamaged (will check again) but I was astounded as to the quality of the seal from the washer... so perfect that the pump appears to struggle to get any air into itself to force down through the NRV into the tank.

In the test firing, I realised that to try to continue in the same vein I’d end up with a right arm like Arnold Swarzenegger.

The pump can actually be very difficult to draw out, the vacuum it creates with the NRV in place is so strong... it sounds like I have to soften the washer a little more. Do you have any suggestions on oil?

One problem with the pump is that the end threat for the brass cap is worn so it seems to pop off every so often which is infuriating when it is such an effort to work the pump and the whole pump arm pops out with the washer with a big ‘pop’.

I also found that until the cast burners warmed up, flame kicked out from between the cast body and the burner head where the (presumably asbestos) packing is... thought I’d leave that be as the retaining screws appear stuck fast...

I’ve just noticed the Czech flag on my posts... I’m in Prague for the weekend!

 

That’s an indication the washer’s not supple enough. On a Primus, there’s a subtle arrangement where the pump cup assembly slides backwards at the start of the pump stroke, making a seal between the pump cup assembly core against a chamfer on the pump rod and on the intake stroke slides forward to break the seal, allowing air to pass through the pump cup assembly.

On the T&W the intake air has to force its way past the pump cup washer, which has to flex to allow that. It’s possilble to have a good seal between the pump washer and the bore but without the flexing, getting the symptoms you describe.

For oil, a light machine oil is as good as anything. Sometimes a cup washer won’t respond to treatment and has to be discarded for something better. Pump cup washers from some sources are virtually unusable. Others are much better. It’s down to the quality and tanning of the hides they’re cut from I guess.

Too bad about the poor threads on the pump cap. Once you’ve got the pump cup washer working well and liberally oiled it wouldn’t harm to try some thread lock on the cap and keep the pump cup oiled by seepage of oil through the cap by dribbling oil down the pump rod occasionally - messy, but possible. The thread lock can be broken if the need really does arise some time.

 

@Pete Marshall
Pete,
Beautiful restoration. If you want to make the data plates really stand out, mask them off and paint them gloss black, allow to dry thoroughly then gently sand the raised lettering with 400 or 600 grit wet or dry. Let the black dry for at least a couple of weeks. I did this on a No.3 I restored for a reenactor group and the plates looked like new. If can find any pictures I'll post them.

 

Hello @presscall ... back home now in the UK... and stripped the No3 down today after a pressure test...

The pressure test showed that the pump was ok but there was a leak on one of the controllers...

The controllers swivel slightly in the housings... but one doesn’t seem to be as flush as the other... it may need to be sweated apart and back together again...

Next... the steel controllers... very pitted... I’m not sure how I can use the grinding paste... as the controller only goes in to the housing so far...

I’ve sorted the pump... I’ve put the smaller of the two metal washers behind the cup washer... this allows the cup washer to flex and it’s not impossible to work now...

Need to tinker with the length of the needle rod to ensure it’s shutting off completely... but I think the leak problems are in the left control which needs resweating and the corroded steel controllers... and perhaps the length of the needle rods...

 

@Pete Marshall
Glad you sorted the pump action.

The pitting of the valve spindles doesn’t at first glance appear to have affected the mating chamfers, although maybe I can see a bit where it has on one.

I don’t know if you’ve silbrazing kit, but I’d be thinking of filling any pit(s) on the chamfer with a speck of silbraze, then filing it down to the contour of the chamfer.

The seat in the valve could be gently/lightly resurfaced with a twist drill of suitable diameter (large enough to be oversized to the seat internal diameter, small enough to be a smooth fit in the valve bore), the drill mounted in the chuck of a hand drill, set to the lowest speed and very slowly and with barely any pressure on the seat so it won’t dig in, turned against the seat to restore the surface.

First, getting the pricker rods installed to the right length might just resolve things. The pricker wire doesn’t have to protrude a great deal out of the jet, barely at all to work effectively as a jet pricker.

John

 

Hello @presscall ...

Thanks for your thoughts...

Will see about one of these silbrazing kits for the control arms...

Actually now you come to mention it the mating surfaces aren’t that bad. Certainly not enough to cause the problems I am encountering with fuel literally flowing out of he nozzles.

I will have to tinker a little more with the length of he needle rod... as it is, if I screw everything home too far, the vaporiser tube can seem too short to reach the cast burners... so it needs care. I had no such problems with the No2 Stove I restored... I am wondering if I just need to tinker with these a little more to ensure I can close off the control. I think the actual closing off takes place in the controller valve and the needle nut and pricker make no seal at all, really...

The leak, it seems, is this rotating part of the control where the solder joint needs resweating. A friend of mine helped me dismantle the No3 initially and he took it apart originally using heat (much to my annoyance)... it certainly didn’t need to be taken apart in the first place... and he’s caused a problem where there was none before... unfortunately, despite my protestations, he is often firmly of the belief that everything can be replaced. Not so.