How do new, currently available stoves stack up?

Hey guys,

I’m new to kerosene stoves. Got the bug and need a brass or nickel stove ASAP.

Spent the better part of two days reading about stoves (here) and searching eBay. I’m not sure I know enough to buy a vintage stove in the rough and bring it back to life (tell me if I’m wrong).

I’ve seen various new stoves @ St. Paul Mercantile, A&H Enterprises, Garrett Wade, etc. How do these stack up against the best of the vintage models. I understand Indonesian and Indian QC isn’t 100%.

I will be using this stove, but not for backpacking — so size and weight don’t matter. In fact, I’d love to be able to put a 2Quart (2 liter?) Simplex tea kettle on the stove without it becoming top-heavy. So it seems I’d do well with one of the larger 2pint or 4pint stoves. Is an 8” or 9” ring possible or too big?

Your advice is critically needed and appreciated. Thanks.

 

I don't believe there is a far east stove that meets the quality requirements to be sold in the European Union although there are dealers selling them. I don't know how that works. The exception may be Manaslu but I don't know for sure. They are certainly high quality.

I have had samples of Indian stoves & a Pelam/Prabhat model. Not brilliant. Nowhere near the best of the vintage but they do ok with care. Manaslu is on par with the the better vintage ones IMO.

 

Welcome to CCS! Well done on becoming a subscriber, thank you from all of us. Ross works his butt off, the support is well deserved.

You're almost certainly capable of refurbing a rough stove. They are relatively simple devices, if you can follow directions well enough to drive a car or bake a cake from a box, you're overqualified to refurbish one of these. No problem.

 

Hi, @CraigSharrow ,

As for how the current offerings compare to the older, vintage stoves, I totally agree with what Spiritburner wrote. The stoves coming out of India, and other such places, are of a lesser quality than most of those from yesteryear. I do recommend the Japanese Manaslu stoves IF you are locate one for sale, as they are head and shoulders above any other kerosene brass stove being made today, IMHO. However, if you are willing to seek an older, more reliable, and much better made kero stove, then the world is your oyster, as there are myriad stoves that can be found used, IF you have patience and seek them. As @Marc suggested in his above post, basic fettling is not really hard, but again patience is the key to getting a very harmonious outcome, when it comes to working on old brass stoves! And, quality stoves, deserve quality replacement parts, which, luckily, can be found in The Fettle Box, here at CCS, and also at Basecamp, which is in the UK, too, and a few other places. Dealing with older stoves and parts, is not as simple as driving down to the store, anymore. But, it's very much worth your efforts, if you truly seek to get into kero stoves, and enjoy using same!! Good luck, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. IF you might like a few suggestions, I can whole-heartedly recommend the Optimus 48 (silent burner) stove, and it's brother, the Optimus 45 (roarer burner). Both are excellent examples of fine Swedish craftsmanship and quality! Both will work nicely for your needs, and they are both reliable and dependable, once fettled properly!! Of course, there are tons of other great stoves for your consideration and perusal. So, have fun in your search, and ask specific questions, if you have them.

 

Welcome, stove addiction here. A #2 stove is getting to be a big size unless cooking for a group. A 45, 100 would be good, a few rarer stoves too, but won't have you looking for them.
Duane

 

Certainly most extreme expeditions carry modern stoves, such as the MSR XGK or Primus Omnifuel. These stoves have proven themselves in very rough conditions. Here at CCS I would guess most of us have interests that lie beyond the designs of the modern stoves. Many of us have and regularly use the "classic brassies". They are quite simple machines and when cleaned and given new seals and pips will usually work very well for their intended uses. They harken from a time when engineers designed things with the attitude that you should only have to buy that item once, and it should be nice to look at. Planned obsolescence is a more modern concept. Most of us here enjoy bringing back to life a beautifully made stove from another era. Modern stoves have little appeal in the artistic department. They are much more complicated to rebuild; just look at how many O rings are in a typical kit. If you are looking to use bigger pans and don't care about carrying the stove in a pack, I would suggest looking at a Coleman 413 series, with the G being readily available and having parts still available. It is a two burner that will hold large pans. It burns white gas. For single burners the Coleman 502 is cheap, readily available, and has parts available. It will hold a large pan as well, but not quite as easily as the two burners. In the brassie realm, you can still find Optimus and Primus 5 stoves relatively cheap. A well loved single burner is the Optimus 111, but they are not so easily found in the states and when you find one it might be expensive. A first choice will involve what kind of fuel you want to burn. The Colemans burn white gas which is available at Walmart. The Optimus stoves I mentioned burn K-1 kerosene, which can usually be found at Home Depot, Lowes, and Walmart. Just be aware that the kerosene burners need to be primed, usually with denatured alcohol, whereas the Colemans are "instant" light without priming, at least until temperatures fall below freezing. Then they need a priming boost. All the stoves I have mentioned are very robust and will likely work for decades. There are many others and I suspect other stovies here will soon chime in. Good luck, and have fun. Brad

 

@CraigSharrow, the white gas stoves mentioned, Coleman 413 series, 425 series, or the indestructable 502 are ones you can't go wrong on, in almost everyone's opinion. Simple as spit and run forever!

As to kero brassies, the older ones are much better, my first one was a Monitor C11 collapsible made for the MoD in the UK, it was NIB, so I was spoiled from the start. The newer ones from St. Paul Mercantile or Garrett Wade leave a fair bit to be desired, they have to be tuned and the like before you really get your use out of them. A&H Enterprises might have some NOS there, they had Patria kero stoves for a while.

The Manaslu stoves are the modern benchmark for a quality stove if you must buy new. However, everyone here is a right mate, and if you bought something older with a mile or three on the clock, we'd give you a hand and get you going and burning fuel in no time flat! We're that sore of blokes, we are!

Murph

 

If you're in search of a classic "Brassie" in the US, go to Garrett Wade and search up "kerosene burner." Here, I did it for you:

https://www.garrettwade.com/classic-burners-for-travel-remote-cooking-gp.html

The two-pint stove is as much stove as any reasonable person will need. The big one is a beast, think frying turkeys or cooking for a huge group. As Prabhat was the licensee for Primus in India, the quality is quite good. The stoves are elegant, and well made.

To note, and there are numerous threads on this forum to this effect, there are several flaws, but they can all be remedied rapidly. The major flaw is that the pump cup leathers supplied are awful. Go to the Fettlebox on this forum and order four of Ross's cups. Soak one in kitchen oil for an hour or two and replace the the leather. Put the other ones in a pill bottle with some cotton balls soaked in Vaseline. If you need to replace your leather, one will be ready.

The NRV, or non-return valve tends to be shoddy as well. Best to replace it.

Slosh out the tank before firing, otherwise you will be fighting the little bits for quite some time.

If you're defrosting frozen excavating equipment, I recommend the large heater. Hooge. Otherwise go for the two-pint until you get your feet under you.

Welcome.

 

Good man. You’re in the right place, as other CCS chums have said. I’ll add my welcome too.

I agree with what’s been said. A refurbished older stove is the way to go I’d say. For not a lot of money and for elbow-grease effort rather than special expertise, you could turn something like this ...




... into this (and it’s highly functional for another 79 years)



John

 

Have to respectfully disagree on this one, John. If a new US stovie can get into a Prabhat for around $60 US shipped, they will learn to fettle the beast and have a working stove in short order. They can then move on to the more arcane models.

While brass seems to lay on the shores of England like the dropped apples from a good harvest, it is not common here, nor are there so many blokes that are there to offer advice.

Of course, if one wants Colemans. it's a different picture.

 

Greetings,

A further thought about currently imported stoves: Besides the aforementioned Manaslu stoves, which are superb, the Prabhat and other India-made stoves, are far below in quality and parts tolerance, IMHO. Yes, the Prabhat stuff is "ok", but I do not expect it to last several lifetimes, as have the Swedish, German, Austrian, British, and older American stoves have done. Metals are thin, tolerances are far more loose, and quality is not even close. I have both a Prabhat stove, and a brass kero lamp, and again, they are "ok", and they can be made to work well enough. But, if you seek a quality item that, with a bit of learning, and a bit of elbow grease applied, will outlast you, and your kids, and your grandkids, then pass on the Prabhat, and seek out an excellent Swedish stove, or another contemporary stove make of that time period. You will not be disappointed, and you will take huge pride in getting a quality, well designed, and very reliable brass stove that should run rings around the lesser quality stoves that we see today (Manaslu stoves, excepted, of course). By the way, the South Korean-made stoves, of the 1970ish period, are also very well made, and nicely designed, lest I forget to include them in the "good stove list"!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

 

I'm highly dubious about the idea of buying a brand-new item from a retailer, knowing that it is of questionable quality and that a couple of important parts should be immediately replaced to make it work right.

I have many brassies of way better quality than said Prabhat that cost a lot less than $60 bucks.

 

Ah, once more unto the breach, good friends.

The Prabhats are not all that bad a stove, and sufficient for a daily user. Given various years, they are often the equal of the Scandinavian product.

@Ed Winskill, yes, there may be a lot better available, but for a fellow that wants to get into the game, given that there is a new foot of snow on the ground and the yard sales are long in the future, the Prabhat is an easy way to ante up.

 

Let's remember that the Swedish products of yesteryear were, at the time, the state of the art. Top of the game. Best equipment available, and quite an expense/investment at the time.

Several of the items manufactured today are rough copies of those classic stoves, as the engineering and design is sound and has withstood the test of time. However, the current products are frequently designed for the third world, and NOT for those of us in developed nations. Built for a completely different demographic, with a completely different price point in mind, and a completely different attitude towards quality.

It's not fair to compare them. Apples to oranges.

 

I will add my two cents.
An "Okay" stove bought new is not even close to a vintage Swedish design Brassie. The quality of manufacturing alone makes it a comparison of unequal entries. And spare parts are known to not fit often enough to be a problem.
Fettlebox parts fit better, too.

I am sure if you posted a wanted in the Trading Post, someone will have something for you.

Another option is an old Coleman Hot Plate. I have one like Duane's.
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/coleman-hot-plate-model-391a.36495/

 

Fair comment. However, I’ve on occasion served as a non-profit making go-between for a UK purchase shipped Stateside or elsewhere, so there’s another possibility - CCS member stove broker assistance.

 

I felt the same as Canuman before buying my first kero burner. I didn't know about CCS in those days and had no clue about the vintage Swedish models. After watching eBay auctions sometimes closing at a reasonable price and other times closing at extra high prices and not knowing why or what the differences were I decided to buy a new Asian made stove. I bought a Butterfly from St Paul Mercantile. I still have it and it's been fueled up since arrival. It isn't a bad stove but it's just OK. It can be used to cook but the flame pattern wasn't centered. One side is extra strong with a little yellow and the other side is low. I bought an extra burner and it performed exactly as the first. I think the jet seats are slightly off. I had to replace the pump leather immediately. I had to rework the pump valve 6 months later after it started leaking. I've never been able to pump the stove to the same intensity as a Primus. Not sure why. I still use this stove but with Swedish burners. I mainly use a Svea roarer on it but I have 4 risers so also use the stove for burner testing. St Paul Merc is a great online merchant. Parts are reasonably priced. Before Fettlebox I purchased fiber burner washers and flame rings there. Shipping is fast and cost efficient but our classic vintage stoves are just plain better.
Instead of buying an Asian stove to learn fettling you are better off starting your fettling experience with a vintage stove and then it will be easier using this knowledge to keep your new Asian stove running.

 

John, if you can find me an original Primus style gimbal and arrange for shipment of same, I promise to kiss all parts of you cherry red -- and I don't favor kissing blokes with glasses at all. For that matter, I'm not at all keen on kissing blokes without glasses.

 

@Canuman
!!!!
‘aint seen one yet but the challenge has been set.

 

We're on, then. I hope you'll shave.