Why Brass and Not Bronze?

Discussion in 'Stove Forum' started by Ed Winskill, Oct 1, 2018.

  1. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    Here's a question for our metallurgists and chemists here; I am sure there is enough expertise here to answer the question.

    Our classics are made of brass. It is malleable, looks great, and strongly resists corrosion. Bronze is the same in these regards, except that it doesn't have the same striking gold appearance. Nonetheless, it is aesthetically appealing, too.

    When one looks online for brass and bronze comparisons, one tends to find the same information over and over again. The composition difference is clear. Bronze was discovered much earlier than brass. Bronze has a very useful property of very slight expansion as it sets; highly useful for cast sculpture, and (I assume) for cast items in general.

    But the descriptions I've seen don't give much detail regarding everyday use differences. Why would bronze not be the equal to brass in our stoves?
     
  2. Marc

    Marc Subscriber

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    Bronze is slightly stronger than brass, and is otherwise very similar. Bronze would make a fine stove.

    I think it just comes down to cost. Zinc costs less than tin, making brass less expensive.

    Edit: This page refers to bronze as hard and brittle, and brass as more malleable, all of which would have a large impact on manufacturing:

    https://www.diffen.com/difference/Brass_vs_Bronze
     
  3. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    The info in that link is repeated word for word in several other "brass vs. bronze" sites.

    The expense issue is interesting. It also seems that brass is well-suited to musical instruments. I'm no musician, but musicians must know their acoustic properties well.

    But from my very imperfect perspective, it seems that there is much more brass about than bronze, apart from statuary and very ancient weaponry.

    There was no "brass age", the iron age following the bronze age before brass was discovered, apparently. Would brass make good edged weaponry compared to bronze, I wonder....
     
  4. gieorgijewski

    gieorgijewski Subscriber

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    costs - but determined by technology wich depends on material character...
    for mass production soften material is better
     
  5. OptimusPrime Canada

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    I would like to submit that the brass age came to be coinciding with the birth of Optimus and Primus companies..



    :lol:
     
  6. SimonFoxxx

    SimonFoxxx Subscriber

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    Given that bronze is more brittle, then maybe less ductile or malleable it would be harder to shape, with our risk of fine cracking?
    Cheers
    Simon Foxxx
     
  7. Afterburner

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    Maybe brass is more easy/better material for cold forming? In mass production pressing is fast and easy way to make (huge amount of) parts. Also labour for pressing machines doesn't need too much special knowledge about metal processing. (Just put plain sheet here, pull the lever to operate the machine, remove formed part and repeat the cycle)
     
  8. ulysses

    ulysses Subscriber

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    For a long time bronze was, and still is used for sailboat fittings on higher end and traditional boats: cleats, ports, fairleads, etc. It is tough, durable and not damaged by salt water.

    Paul
     
  9. Dr Phun

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    I think of bronze as being cast or machined, not pressed whereas brass is often pressed. I don't think of bronze as being soldered either.
     
  10. presscall

    presscall United Kingdom PotY Winner SotM Winner SotY Winner Subscriber

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    Much sooner I believe. This plaque on a wall in the vicinity of Tintern Abbey UK marks the foundation of a thriving 16th century brass industry in the locality.

    7DB73EFE-E610-483F-8646-B2D50486E868.jpeg

    Stove burner material is more in the bronze alloy spectrum than brass I’d say, a brazed-up fabrication of cast components.

    John
     
  11. Ed Winskill

    Ed Winskill United States Subscriber

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    I think they forgot to put "in England" after "first made"....
     
  12. David

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    Enough of the alloys, make it from copper! Like my Thermette
     
  13. Pitsligo

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    I occasionally work for a local bronze foundry as a patternmaker; mostly marine stuff like cleats, shackles, etc. Brass isn't anywhere near as strong as bronze, but my sense is that it's also much more easily formed (depending on the alloy), so an easily worked brass alloy would then be easier to form into parts, as well as cheaper. Add a bit of lead into the brass alloy, and it becomes very easy to machine, too, which is especially important for cast parts that will then be machined/threaded.

    I've just asked my boss at the foundry, so maybe he'll have a more authoritative answer.

    Alex
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2018
  14. Pitsligo

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    The question I asked my boss at the foundry:

    "A question: why would the old brass Primus and Optimus stoves have been made out of brass instead of bronze? Is it just because brass is both adequately strong and easier to cold-work? Cost? Something else?"

    My boss's reply:

    "Brass is cheap to make and has 70% copper, 30% zinc It is easy to machine, stamped, drawn, spinning, etc. and can be tempered.
    Good cold working as well.

    I am sure that is the main reason, cost and process."

    Alex
     
  15. Tony Press

    Tony Press Australia Subscriber

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