Check this out: a video of an MSR doing the flip-stop... [media=youtube]EVUZfJYHnck[/media] Why on earth do they not shout this feature from the rooftops? I have been put off getting another MSR for ages because of the fuel hassle I have been getting from my old XGK II. What a bunch of wallys!
In the words of Mr. Spock: fascinating. I notice he didn't even "unlatch" the wire that secures the stove's fuel line to the pump. Fascinating -- and eminently useful. Perhaps they don't advertise it because of (perceived) liability issues. If someone did that maneuver with petrol, and a drop leaked out, there could be a fire or worse. I suppose as long as one is careful and watches very closely for even the barest seep of fuel, that the maneuver can be done safely. Thanks very much for the post (even though it did expose my gross ignorance). Silly me, following the manufacturer's instructions. HJ
Is flip stop realy that good. If running white spirit the gas in the top of the tank is a fairly strong fuel air mix esspecialy in warm weather. In some circumstances wouldnt this carry on burning so the stove doesnt go completly out. This could be far more dangerous than the old fashioned way
Geeves, I would think that as the pressure in the tank decreases, you'd eventually have a) purged all liquid fuel from the pump, fuel line, and stove and b) that because of a lack of pressure, the flame would indeed go out. My only concern is a fuel leak near the bottle. HJ
Hi, HJ, I'm with you on that concern, my Friend! As this setup was not designed to do that on a regular basis, I worry that the small o-ring that restricts leaks at the pump/stove junction, would be abraded, or damaged. Not worth the possible safety problems, as far as I'm concerned. But, that's just me. I regularly let pressure out of all my stoves, MSR included, and have never cranked the fuel tube in it's socket, to do it. Just my two cents.... Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (for whom it remains: Safety - first, last, and always!!)
I'm with you on that, Doc, so reckon my MSR XGK II (rigid fuel pipe) and Whisperlite (stubby flexi pipe) are 'non-flip' stoves. That said, I don't bother to flip my Primus Omnifuel or Sigg Firejet, that would 'flip' because of swivels in the fuel line. My reasoning is that when I've put the effort into pressurising the fuel bottle, I'm not inclined to lose pressure 'purging', particularly when I expect to use the stove more than once on an outing. Moreover, the Omnifuel's not even reliable at doing the 'flip' purge and won't when the bottle's more than half full. Why? Take a look at this line-up of Sigg/MSR/Primus pumps, Primus Omnifuel in the foreground, all orientated as they would be during a 'flip' The Primus's fuel pick-up pipe is the least - ahem - erect. It's heavier (metal) fuel strainer weighs it down. Here's the Primus pump set on a fuel bottle in a position resembling how it would be within the bottle, alongside the 'perkier' late-model MSR. The MSR would 'purge' reliably with the bottle even at 'max' fuel level, the Primus wouldn't with the bottle much more than half full. Pointless having the 'flip' facility in my view. I'm happier with a positive fuel shut-off at the tank and a bit of a trickle of fuel resulting when I disconnect stove from fuel bottle for packing away. John
well i'll carry on purging mine, if the block wasn't meant to rotate then msr would have it fixed in place i would of thought,[they didn't ergo it was designed to rotate] it rotates to make it easier to pack away i doubt that a round pipe will risk damaging the o ring as much as pushing the tapered end past the o ring does when you mount the pipe to the pump [i thought o rings were designed for forming a seal on a round component silly me i better strip the van down and remove them all from the engine and gearbox] if so i'll stop using all my other remote stoves as well as they all rely on o rings and a round bar that rotates in the fuel control taps and also in the fuel line connectors wiki o ring
Hey, Parra, I think it's great for you to do as you desire, my Friend, and never said otherwise. I'll do the same, and hey, we're both happy, right?!! 8) Most of the leakage problems I've had with MSR stoves, for almost the last 30 years, have been connected with that little o-ring where the fuel tube attaches. So, I'm concerned with wearing it more than necessary. Like I say, that's just the way I do it, and have done it for thirty years. If you wish to do otherwise, go for it, Mate! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Doc yup we are both happy more than one way to skin a cat and each to their own , i've had to much kero leak out on things to go back to not purging but saying that i am drifting away from the newer stuff and i blame/thank Bryan and George i'm starting to develop a real sweet spot for the 96's and am going to sell up my Nova's and finally treat myself to that Manaslu 96 that i have still not got , going for new as the few i have seen on the bay used were nearly as much as a new one atb Bill
Hi Mark, flipping has nothing to do with the o-ring as the rotation takes place where the fuel line is crimped to the block. I think you are correct to be worried about eventual wear but it would take yonks. Hi John I always flip my omnifuel to purge it, you just need to do it on a angle, a box of matches on its side under the end of the bottle does it. Having said that I agree with you that it is nice to keep the pressure in the bottle when on a trip. I just got a dragonfly today from the 40 dollar ebay ones. I had forgotten what a great stove it was. Dan
My concern was not so much that it would never go out but a tiny flame would linger small enough to not be seen but large enough if close to any spilt fuel. My coleman will relight by itself if turned on immediately after the flame disappears as the flame will still burn a few seconds inside the burner. This is normal on quite a few colemans but it wouldnt be expected on a msr which is the trap. Also agree on o ring wear
Once it goes out all the pressure from the bottle exits the jet. The fuel line is empty and even it it was not empty there is no pressure in the bottle to sustain a flame. Are you still using the silent burner cap on your dragonfly? The one you made from a hank roberts stove? Does it work well? The dragonfly sure is loud but it burns so clean, makes me wonder why anyone would buy a optimus nova for kerosene use. I swear my new one packs up smaller than my old one did. Might be my imagination. Dan
if you flip the bottle to purge then the stove can't relight as there is no fuel left in the burner, fuel pipe, or pump, if there is your doing it wrong it just seems safer to me to pack a clean fuel free stove than something that might drip or pour aspen/colemans over your kit, one spark [static] and bang go's your trip and if it's strapped to your back at the time you better be able to shed that rucksack quick safety is a funny thing as we all have different takes on it atb Bill
It was a gaz not hank roberts. Although it worked ok I was never completly happy as the flame spread very wide makeing the pot stand glow and loosing a lot of heat around the pot. Still keep it in case I have to use the stove in a small hut with other people
The burner that got cut for the dragonfly was a rando360 I acquired it incomplete and although cartages are available they are 12 bucks a throw which would make the stove uneconomic to use. I also have a super bluet and an unnamed one both which take piercable cartridges.These are still easily bought in NZ
One of my 2 gaz stoves has a small burner the same size as the rando one. This should work but you have to pull out the mesh inside it and cut the stalk off almost flush. The other burner is much bigger so would work until the vaporisation heat is lost then flare
I also have the same preference. But I'm looking for a compact stove like Svea 123/123R (or smaller), running on kerosene or paraffin, having SRV (more for peace of mind). I found that kerosene is safer than white gas or alcohol, if spills. As it is not as easy to ignite unless with wick or preheating. I also tested my MSR Dragonfly with thinner for paint, it was fade out easily with DG jet just like the behavior with alcohol 95%. It needs bigger jet hole. It is quite easy to buy alcohol in muslim countries, mostly at construction shop. I usually buy methanol 95% there, IDR 40k a litre or equals USD 3. We can also buy alcohol 70% in almost any apothecary shops. My favorite place to buy is in online marketplace (bukalapak.com and tokopedia.com), where I can buy in bulk for significant cheaper price. And so many options: methanol 98%, FGA/PGA 95%, absolute alcohol 99%. Besides where I live (Indonesia), the other countries are also easy to get alcohol: Malaysia, Brunei Darussalam, Qatar, Dubai, Abu Dhabi. At least, we can count on that alcohol 70% is available mostly on apothecary shop for antiseptic purpose.
