picking white gas cans that don't stink

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No I only somewhat complained that the fuel stunk up my car! Not much to complain about, since here it is back. Well, the 15 minutes out of my life to rectify this turkey. That's way, way less time than I burned on their stupid online vs. walk-in pricing.

Target's a bunch of jerks too. I declined a Coleman "30*F" sleeping bag because they wanted $40 online, $60 in person! I have another reason to hate Target, from way back in the day. Much more than Walmart which at least has been the source of many a free night of parking over the years in many places, i.e. Hotel Walmart.

So I'm just going into the field without a new bag. I'll be taking my original Coleman 30*F bag from 12 years ago, which is down to being a blanket / tube now, not a bag anymore. Zipper still works, it's just ripped partly free of the rest of the bag. Also taking a Field and Stream mummy bag whose zipper broke after 1 year. It has been very serviceable as what people call a "quilt". Those 2 things together, worked pretty well for a long time. Now they're super beat up, so I've thrown in 2 more blankets for good measure. The dog and I will see if it's enough. Probably for now, given my "fair weather" tendencies.

I tried to shop sleeping bags online, and pretty much hated all the shenanigans / details I got into. Decided "will blankets work?" for now. Should probably put more effort into the sleeping surface. For years in my car I had a mountain of scrap memory foam. For various reasons, it all went bad during the pandemic. So I threw it all out. Presently I've got this bare minimum "dog mat", that I happened to buy, that he didn't like when in a house. So we'll try it in the car.

It's a bit slack. I mean, I'm burning so much effort just on the cooking problem. But I've got a really nice new piece of $21 Cuisinart cookware to put on top of whatever burner I end up with. 2 side handles instead of 1 long handle, which packs much better in a car. Not as tall as my stupid old pot, and wider. Still deep enough to be versatile: I could fry chicken, or make chili. Glass lid no vent.

 

For cold there are versions.

Fettlebox has done a lot of research on Viton.
All of your questions are already answered here.
Search here. You are a computer programmer, should be a cinch.

 

Well yes, it's generally been easier to search this site, than the entire internet, which is why I have an account here now. Being a computer programmer isn't magic though. One is generally constrained by time and whether the discussion on a particular subject, is well organized. Also one must know what one is looking for. I'll look for Fettlebox's knowledge, thanks for that.

 

9:20 AM. Brisk morning, 54*F, no direct sun. A somewhat accurate simulation of sleeping overnight on a cool fall day, although I might have had the window cracked. I opened the car door, got in quickly, closed it, and tried to smell if anything was amiss. I couldn't smell anything obvious. Not so sure I'd swear to totally undetectable, but with other smells in the car, it's hard to be sure. Anyways it's completely unlike what the Crown white gas did immediately. I will go into the field with the Coleman can of fuel, and see how this all works out on the road.

In late fall / early winter, getting down to freezing, I would not have the window cracked. But the car would also get 20*F colder, which might prevent some fumes.

If heroics are needed, first I'll try oversized ziplock bags. Then I'll go up the Viton o-ring fuel bottle learning curve. The trick being, what version of that isn't spendy.

Will report on tightness, looseness, and smelliness of fuel can caps at Walmart or other places as I find them. And as I have wifi, which on the road, is not a given. But I do generally find it, as it's one of the needs.

 

An ACE Hardware store had 2 cans of expensive Coleman fuel, buried on a low shelf. $19. They had different date codes that I don't know how to decipher. Stuck my nose at their caps and could only smell metal welds. This time checked the looseness of the caps. They are very loose, like some kind of child safety cap. I did not try to turn them functionally, as I don't own them. I suspect that like many such products, they have a glued foil seal that must be punctured / removed when first used. And it wouldn't shock me, if the Crown white gas cans, had grossly inferior such seals, that were leaking.

Why might they leak, specifically or in general? I'm wondering about supply chain disruptions. Maybe they haven't managed to sit at sea on cargo containers, like various consumer products have. But during the pandemic, they may have been sitting around somewhere. For a long time. All sorts of petrochemical products go bad over time, especially if manufacturers start cheaping out on quality / specs. For instance, there are various kinds of polyurethane (?) in shoe soles that goes bad, over the course of years or disuse. Any massive shoe bargains you saw recently, could have been sitting on a container ship somewhere, for a long time. You might have gotten what you paid for, if you bit on it.

So the next stage is going to be actually opening my can, and see what happens when that foil is gone. Probably get on with that later this afternoon. Fire up the stove and so forth, hopefully flushing out some of the old gunk by doing that. Leave the can and stove in the car overnight again. Think I'll make a sleeve for the sharp parts of the stove, and put it in a gallon bag. No heroics for the can, for this next test at least. I do plan to finally depart tomorrow. Might as well find out what I'm in for, before hitting the road.

If by surprise it turns into complete disaster, I could always ditch the can for a few weeks, take the electric hot plate, accept that I'll only be cooking in specific places for the moment, and come up with Plan B on fuel containers. Worst case is I abandon this gear at a relative's house, allocating it only for hunkering down during a regional storm / emergency / power outage. But I shouldn't be so quick to think in terms of gloom and doom. Like I said, once upon a time a decade ago, I never had any problems.

 

The Coleman can did have a sort of piece of foil to seal the fuel with. But it was not glued down, or something that had to be removed. It was part of the cap! Doesn't strike me as being the most robust seal in the world, or designed to hold up for a long time. I'm wondering if a Coleman fuel can cap was replaced with something more robust, if the fuel would be preserved for longer. Anyways, this was a simple matter of tightening and loosening a child safety cap. I opted for "fairly tight" and eventually put the can back in the car.

I got a chance to prove my claim that I knew how to handle fuel filling. Surprisingly, I did not spill even 1 drop on either the can or the stove. I deliberately used very little fuel because my intent was to burn it all off, to try to purge the stove of that nasty gasoline that had been sitting in it. That mission may be accomplished, because the stove didn't have any smell that I noticed while it was running at all. White gas is definitely better than gasoline, hands down, no question.

The funnel, however, when I removed it was holding some fuel at the bottom. And also in its filter matrix. These caused a few drips on the ground and on my right hand. My right hand kinda stunk. Even after finally washing it a half hour later, my right hand still stinks a little. I handled a lot of things with my left hand for awhile, on the principle that I may not be able or willing to wash my hands right the second a spill happens. In particular, I sealed up the slightly stinky funnel in a ziplock bag, one handed. It's still got some gasoline residue from its earlier abuse, but I think it's lessening.

My new cooking "pot pan", I don't know what you call a shallower wider thing with handles, is not exactly stable on this 1-burner. It's too big. It should have some kind of additional stand. Maybe even a cylindrical jacket ala the rocket stove principle, but I may not need or care about that so much in the real world. A stand with greater surface area though, definitely. If I went to the 2-burner stove instead, I wouldn't have any problem. Plenty of surface area. But the 2-burner needs some refurbishing, to quell the occasional yellow flame problem. I'm pretty sure that's why it was abandoned, by a camping goods store. Someone bought something better and didn't want to deal with the old equipment.

I filled the cooking pot pan thing halfway up with water, wanting to simulate a "big meal", and also stress its stability. It took about 10 minutes to boil. Since it was a lot of water, I don't think that was so bad really. Once it boiled though, I could never get it to do anything but boil. That's the problem I've always had with the Coleman 533: no real temperature control. It does hot and that's about it. I've read that if I don't pump it up so hard, maybe I'll be able to control the temperature better.

This time around though, since my goal was to purge the system, I pumped it full blast. It boiled and boiled and boiled until finally... it nearly ran out of fuel and ceased to do much of anything. I pumped it up more, trying to get the last bits of fuel out, but I'd say within 3 minutes of slacking off, it was done. Tried burning a dried leaf to make sure I actually still had some kind of flame. It singed but I couldn't get it to ignite.

I got a good 20 minutes of runtime out of that very modest load of fuel. I'm not even sure I put a funnel's worth in there. Not that you can actually measure a "funnel's worth", it's just a guess. I could talk in terms of X seconds of dripping. Who knows / cares. Very little fuel. Dregs at the bottom of the stove.

Once done, I wondered how long it would take for the stove to cool down. I remembered that finishing up some cooking, and needing to drive somewhere for some kind of meeting, was a very common scenario. Or sometimes a park crew comes through with big lawn mowers, and you need to pack up all your picnic shelter stuff in a hurry, so they can get on with their work. Take a walk around the park while they blast stuff with leaf blowers and whatnot.

The electric hot plate is a bit of a beast, as far as holding heat after it's been used. It's one of the things I don't like about it. Still, I've shoved it in my car plenty of times, still warm, needing to cool down some. Figured I'd do the same test with my Coleman 533. So, no protective plastic bag. No cleaning. Just straight from cooking to sitting inside my closed up car. But, generally I'd be airing the car out 20 minutes later, once I came back. So that's the fair test.

Having written this up, it's probably time to go check on it now.

Ok, gotta be only 5 minutes later as I can still edit this. Car smells fine. Cooking pot is still warm, and smells like chlorine water. Leaving the lid on was a mistake, as far as getting it to dry out. Removed the lid. Stove is not warm at all now. Only thing I smell, sticking my nose all over it, is rust. Typical cooking burner rust. Wonder what I do about that. Same issue as the old electric hot plate, although the hot plate is worse. Something else to research.

Looks like Coleman fuel passes all tests so far! I may not even need a ziplock bag for the stove.

 

@Brandon Van Every I love your attention to detail and your observational skill.

 

Compulsively thorough! Hoping the next poor schmo working this problem, is saved some pain.

Coming back to the car 40 minutes later, I smelled something. It was slight, but it was there. I got a gallon ziplock plastic bag for the stove. Belatedly I remembered to depressurize it, something I've never previously been in the habit of doing. I bet that causes some smell.

I left my car door open and will come back to it in a bit. The smell is slight and should be trivial to clear.

It is still conclusive, that I can leave a warm stove in the car and walk away for a bit. Might need airing an hour later, but it won't be a problem.

 

Turns out it's not the stove, that's making the noticeable smell. It's the funnel, which has been contaminated by filtration of ancient gasoline. The smell is going straight through the ziplock bag it's in, no stopping it. It's bad enough that I might consider trashing the thing. First I need to take inventory whether I've got another one. Maybe the 2nd one I'm thinking of, got stolen with my original 2-burner stove. The 1-burner had one; doubt the abandoned 2-burner stove ever did.

I'm going to press my luck on my fuel handling skills and fire up the 2-burner. I'm not sure I ever used that stove with Coleman fuel, only gasoline a long time ago. Maybe that's what caused the yellow flame, and it would like Coleman fuel better / fine? At least, I'm sure Coleman fuel would get it partway cleaned up, judging by how the 1-burner improved after a run.

Maybe I can soak the funnel in white gas. Maybe that would remove crud. Not sure I have an appropriate container handy though. Recycling day was a few days ago, so not much is in the bin. Couldn't find any HDPE #2 earlier to make a sleeve for the 1-burner's sharp parts, so just accepted they may rip a few bags, until I've got a plastic donor. I could do cardboard from a food package, but I'd rather not.

I'm in luck! 2nd funnel in the 2-burner case. Doesn't smell remotely as bad, very mild. Think I can abandon the contaminated funnel, pending a soak.

 

That contaminated funnel in the ziplock bag, has already stunk up the cloth and plastic printed bag I was carrying my stove gear in. Just from sitting in the bag overnight, in the garage. Maybe those bag materials are really good at absorbing odors. Hope the bag isn't ruined. It was from the Humane Society and the animal pictures on it are cute. Soaking it in some laundry detergent now.

Took each item out and smelled it individually. Stove isn't much of an offender. Match bags smell like old matchbook striking surface, but they're tolerable. They're ancient but they work. I could knock myself out and buy new matches, after a decade. If I believed the smell would go away. Abandoned a collection of Bic lighters I've found on the ground over the years. Who knows what they're leaking. The garage can have them.

Details details. Surprised how ineffective ziplock plastic bags are, in the face of certain smells. Once it's stinky enough, forget it!

One time I made the mistake of collecting a weed specimen, to try to figure out what my dog was allergic to. Put it in ziplock bags on a card table and forgot about them for awhile, in all the junk. OMG! It totally ruined several things they were near. Do not take plant samples.

 

Ziplock brand freezer bags, or are you referring to a generic plastic bag with a zip opening?
Could it be a quality issue?

Lacquer thinner is known to clean the varnish of old gasoline. It might clear that funnel. I have used alcohol.

Compulsive? Have you considered switching to an alcohol stove?

 

The MSDS of Crown fuel lists toluene as a component. Toluene exposed to air is sharply pungent. The MSDS of Coleman fuel does not list toluene as a component although other chemicals are listed. The question for the chemists here would be: Is toluene a necessary component of naphtha because if it isn't, the toluene content of Crown might be part what is creating the discomfort here. If it is a necessary component, maybe there's more of it in Crown than in Coleman, although it isn't in Coleman's list at all.

Decant some of that Crown, Ed and describe its bouquet.

 

Ziplock brand. Quality control isn't the problem. It just won't do certain jobs. It's not a real seal. Or the plastic is permeable to certain substances?

Really interesting theory as to the difference. Wouldn't shock me if as an industrial process, the inclusion of toluene, or lack of bothering to eliminate it from a run, is part of what makes Crown fuel half the cost of Coleman fuel. I've heard things about runs of automotive oil and why you don't want the cheap house brand stuff at AutoZone etc. All the contaminants in an oil pipeline before they get the full delivery of something. A sort of grading / batching of fuel stock.

Meanwhile in burner land...

I filled the Coleman 424 2-burner dual fuel stove with minimal fuel. Once again I didn't spill even a drop on the tank or the can. But the funnel, that's the weak link. Because there was very little fuel in the tank, I tapped the tip of the funnel successfully and didn't run afoul of that. But the filter is going to hold some fuel no matter what. I absorbed a bit of it with a paper towel and threw it away. Didn't really get my hands messy that time.

With minimal fuel, I couldn't get any pressure in the tank at all. I couldn't get the stove lit. I know this stove has problems, it was abandoned for a reason.

Thought perhaps if the tank was more full, I could get pressure. If the valve isn't toast or something. So, filled it up halfway, because I might want to salvage that fuel for my good working Coleman 533 one-burner stove. Once again didn't spill even a drop on the tank or the can. Even wiped the spout of the can with a clean paper towel, to prove to myself that I'd managed it that well, again.

And then because of more fuel in the tank, completely blew the whole funnel tapping thing, and spilled some. Used paper towels to clean up the cement and my hands. Put paper towels into the funnel to absorb more fuel, and threw the towels away.

I used to think the Coleman snorkel funnel was very clever, and maybe as far as getting a tank completely full, it is. But from a fuel handling standpoint, this isn't so great. I'd like a smell free system. If anything is going to stink my car, it's probably going to be my Ziplock bag with the moist filter. Maybe I can find some kind of canister to seal the funnel in, but I sure can't find that right this minute, while I'm packing to depart.

I've left this problematic stove running, and I'm checking on it every 5 to 10 minutes. It was trouble getting it started, I had to pump it excessively. Worked better once I finally turned down the lever after a time. For awhile, I wasn't confident it would stay lit, so I delayed that quite a bit longer than instructions said to do. The gas flow is bursty, surging, or whooshy. Intervals of 1 to 2 seconds. No way I'd trust this stove in the field right now, especially as my only cooking device. It needs some kind of work.

On the positive side, the flame is always clean blue. Probably because the fuel is better than the gasoline I used years ago.

It's been running awhile now and if continuing to burn can clean anything out, I think it's probably done what can be done. I'm thinking about turning it off and salvaging the remaining fuel. Maybe I should give it a cooking test though.

Ok, gave it 30 more pumps. Pressure is weak / soft. Bet that's a clue to what's wrong. Filled my "pot pan" up halfway with cold tap water, like before. Both burners have been going full throttle for some time now. Put it on the main burner. Now we'll see. Took approx 10 minutes to boil last time, and once boiling, could not be stopped from boiling.

Will putz with packing until I've got some kind of result.

Can edit, so less than 10 minutes later... trying to cook with a big bottom pot pan, seemed to put the flames out! Well strictly speaking I haven't checked the fuel in the tank, but I bet there's plenty. This kinda sucks. I guess my expectations weren't super high, but I thought things would at least work. Moving on to the salvaging of fuel.

 

There wasn't enough fuel left in the 2-burner to bother to salvage. For the amount I put in, and the amount of run time, that sure seemed like a big wasteful nothing. Probably another clue about what's wrong.

I noticed there are clever little markings on the inside of my "pot pan". In my experiments today, I boiled 7 to 8 cups of water. Coleman 533 one-burner handles it fine.

 

This morning the car had a slight fuel smell in it. It wasn't bad, and I think opening the car door aired it out. I tried putting some of the stuff, like the bagged funnel, inside my glass domed "pot pan".

Coming back to the car a few hours later, while repacking I had reason to remove the "pot pan" lid. There was an immediate noticeable smell of fuel from that. So once again I think the funnel is at fault.

Happened to have the bag the funnel originally came in lying around. Read the directions on it. Saw that the filter part of the funnel is actually removable and can / should be cleaned. Claims for why you're filtering are "dirt, water, and impurities". Well, water does answer one of my questions about why I'm bothering, with a new can of Coleman fuel. At some point I'll try to figure out the best way to clean the filter. Like if it filters water, why would you use water?

Decided to try to seal the funnel up better in something. Had a Snapware brand gasketed "airtight / watertight" food container around. My field experience is, it really isn't. Generally I use these kinds of containers in my cooler, when the ice is half melted and there's a lot of icewater. No sense pouring off icewater, that's cold you paid for. So I have all these "airtight" containers bobbing around, and the Snapware ones aren't actually all that good. I don't actually have a good brand anymore. The ones that were good, they eventually fell apart, and I haven't been able to find them again. Just a minor nagging detail of my life that maybe I'll figure out someday, when there's enough pressure to do so.

Anyways, bagged fuel funnel and 1 box of bagged old smelly matches into the Snapware gasketed container. 2 other boxes of bagged old smelly matches given to the garage, to keep the Bic lighters company. Someday I may knock myself out and buy new matches. But they may end up in this container anyways. Ensuring the dryness of matches is always a good thing.

We'll see if this simple expedient, makes a difference in smells.

 

Preliminary web searching says it is not required:

Without having done more research yet, my guess is that leaving toluene around in the fuel, is somehow a cheaper manufacturing process.

And yes, the stink I first noticed with that can of Crown white gas, was definitely similar to paint thinner.

More info:

So again, not necessary for "naptha". A choice.

 

Because of the sensitivity to the fuel, and the funnel is a current focus.....
Consider rinsing the funnel with alcohol after use.

 

Any idea what material that funnel filter is made out of? It's a red plastic funnel with a white "lumpy" filter material of some kind, and a bent black snorkel.

The reason I ask is because last time I thought I could just use 70% isopropyl alcohol on something, it destroyed my car's tail light and cost me $100 to replace it, plus my labor. Consequences aren't so dire this time but I now feel a need to always chase down whether isopropyl alcohol is "the right stuff".

Started a preliminary web search on the topic but Coleman's care and cleaning directions are useless. They don't talk about the funnel filter.

 

Is this it?

https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-2000016489-Filter-Funnel/dp/B0000AS5QB/ref=asc_df_B0000AS5QB/?

 

Yes, that's the funnel.