My friend picked this up in a flea market, I posted it online for identification and a few people have said it could be a Chaffing dish, but one other guy said it could be an Army issue medical device for sanitizing, any info would be appreciated, Thanks.
Do the fuel container and burner fit into the case neatly? If this is a set, it is definitely not a sterilising device. Sterilising would generally involve alcohol as the sterilising agent, and the sterilising involves lifting the perforated tray out of the sterilising liquid at the end. Putting a flame to alcohol, or attempting to lift from boiling water, would be rather silly moves. The metal box and perforated tray could possibly be a sterilising set so the suggested identification is sensible in that way. There are two unlikely elements, neither completely excluding the possibility this is a sterilising tray: the box has legs, and the tray has handles that project into the central space. If you google for sterilising trays you will see that the inner trays usually have handles that are not coming into the vertical space. Finally, while I could imagine this as a sterilising tray for a hairdresser or podiatrist, I cannot see a legged sterilising tray being issued by any Army. I could see this box as a type of chafing dish, and the burner and fuel supply belong to a chafing dish. If they belong to the box and perforated tray, then all this is a chafing dish.
Can any people here confirm these devices are used for boiling/heating instruments? As in, have used them while in the military etc? In the medical field the process would be alcohol sterilisation, cleaning (in a sink, with soap and water) then wrapping into a paper-and-plastic envelope (previously cotton cloth envelope) before high-pressure steaming. The instruments are then cooled in the device before using. Using boiling water would be dangerous, slows the cleaning process and cannot equal the steam sterilisation. If you have access to enough alcohol to fill the fuel container you do not need a burner for initial sterilising. Just pour the alcohol in the box and drop the tray in. On top of that, the alcohol remains effective just sitting there so you don’t need to keep refilling the burner. For that reason alone I cannot imagine a chafing-style burner under a medical sterilising tray. Inefficient, and also dangerous: easy to see a finger going into the boiling water.
I think it is a field sterilizer. I have seen a similar kit described as a dental sterilizer; imagine dental picks and other instruments in the perforated tray. The tray would be lifted in and out of the larger vessel by the handles. There were other tools to lift the tray without burning your fingers. I'm not sure which army issued this kit, and it could be for civilian use.
Could and would... Guys, I have decades of practical experience with the type of equipment you are talking about. This would not be used, imho, for instruments. No-one would pour their sterilising alcohol into a burner. I agree in the generalities: the tray would allow a fluid ( alcohol? water? Warm air?) to flow through it. But, as I say, in any of the contexts I have worked in you would just pour the alcohol into the box and submerge the tray, and instruments. That is exactly what your dentist would do, even a mobile dentist. Perhaps particularly a mobile dentist. A steam steriliser runs at pressure-cooker levels of pressure (and heat) and could not be powered by an alcohol burner. And any other bacteriocidal system would be room temperature for safety. I am happy, very happy, for someone to say they used this with instruments in 1987 during their military service. But "it looks like what my podiatrist has" will not cut it. If it was used for cleaning dental/medical/etc instruments rather than steaming dumplings, I'd love to know how, and why. Dr Scrambler, MBBS
Autoclave - Wikipedia That tray over an alcohol burner would be lucky- very lucky- to simmer. It will absolutely not get to 250 Fahrenheit (120 C) at 2 atmospheres, which is what it has to do to be a steam steriliser. You can sterilise in a pressure cooker (Hawkins pressure cookers used to have the "recipe" in their manual) but you can't in a non-pressure steam bath. You can with a microwave but this manifestly is not for use in a microwave! You CAN sterilise metal in an alcohol flame- directly in the flame and held there. But this isn't for that. I say again- if used to disinfect/sterilise, that container would have alcohol in it and the instruments in the alcohol. But, and again I am repeating, I am happy to be corrected by an eyewitness.
I have sterilized petri dishes and such using a pressure cooker ("15psi for 15 minutes" as I recall from many years ago), and I agree with @Scrambler that this apparatus would not do that. So I think it's still a mystery. ....Arch
I am not sure - WHAT IS REAL DISCUTED QUESTION... if (meths heated) field steriliser's existing proofs - i can make external topic for that btw - i am suprised above discussion - it is typical gear used all XX century even in "in one time use" parts time ========================== i.e. and set pre wwii polish medical oficier BURNER - is german copy but is the same like polish fits to thats sets discuted sets is F SAN above set from added pictures - like all medical gear was signed WP SAN - where WP mean Polish Army boiling water as sterilisation method any question moore? @Scrambler
and is for sale https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Steriliser-Thenot-Antique-Sterilisations-Disinfectant/dp/B01BSRH02E
Thanks @gieorgijewski . Much appreciated. Horrified, but that's history, and war. Boiling was known to not reliably work for sterilisation by the time these items were made. So they are the poorer option but presumably better than nothing. Sterilization Techniques - Sage Journals https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/216507996301100205 - a 1960s review of the options. Makes a point of saying gas gangrene and tetanus are not prevented by boiling: common battlefield infections. Where does that leave the original photo? Similar internal handles to the Polish kit (pre WW2) but not the same dimensional frame: deeper than the Polish kit. I still don't know but can't exclude (substandard) sterilisation.
at first The Century of the Surgeon by Jurgen Thorwald if You do not read that - just do it it is important to locate "problem" on time line Vintage medical sterilizer AESCULAP Metal container Set | eBay Militärischer Feldsterilisator im Gebrauch der k. u. k. Armee um 1914, - Historische Waffen, Uniformen, Militaria 24.11.2020 - Erzielter Preis: EUR 102 - Dorotheum unknown construction with old design AESCULAP Sterylizator Pojemnik sterylny Steribox Autoklaw Chirurgiczny sterylny pojemnik | eBay size of the box depends of task a few sizes was
WW2 Sammelbesteck and Hauptbesteck 1939 field surgical kits | eBay Note that this 1939 German army surgical kit is set up for the trays to be autoclaved. The drawing of the Polish field kit does not have a burner. It looks like it would most likely be autoclaved and issued closed and sterile. Again, I'm happy to be wrong, and the set you have shown has legs, and legs that support a burner. The instrument tray in the drawing does not have legs. What is the era for the kit you have, @gieorgijewski ?
You could to be happy... and please - do not try explain me equipment of Polish Army it will be not professional
