It's all a mystery. Here's the block on my stove. The numbering scheme seems different. As I recall, the box my XGK came in was like the ones @anfeng shows. I have a vague memory of a sticker with tiny print that was meant for the bottle bottom. I didn't apply it, as I figured the adhesive would just dry out and it would become litter, and I couldn't imagine squinting through goggles to read the bottom of my fuel bottle while sitting at high camp. I probably have the box, instructions, and decal somewhere. Ken @snwcmpr I don't know when the transition from GK to XGK happened, nor do I know when MSR introduced their own bottle. (I'm sure I could look that information up on this site. ) I'm just dealing with memories. I wasn't a "collector" then. This was just my second stove, and I wasn't really interested in all the details. It was (seems very strange to say now) just a tool. @OMC Yes, for a while the MSR bottles were just another option, along with Sigg bottles. My (imperfect) memory is that I don't even recall seeing them until sometime after I got this stove. ....Arch
Thanks to all, It turns out details above, do better inform the topic. Images.. the MSR instructions are most helpful to reference, thank you anfeng The 86 & 89 instructions look to be a match, well a match re the Warning and Note. They are both the < ... >>> "MSR STOVE SYSTEM INSTRUCTION MANUAL" <<< (12 panel instr.) 12 panel version of instructions came round ??? … after 81 apparently. Arch, We've now learned by '86 the instructions have: WARNING USE ONLY MSR FUEL BOTTLES WITH YOUR MSR STOVE. Use of any non-MSR fuel bottles with any MSR stove may result in fuel leakage and/or separation of the fuel bottle from the pump. This would create an extreme fire hazard. ...and ^^^^ is news to me , but quite odd… '86 & 89 ALSO HAVE: Note: the MSR fuel bottle is specifically designed to contain the MSR pump and to withstand intentional pressurization from the pump. Exercise care in the selection and use of other manufacturer's bottles; some have proven faulty. We can maybe learn more yet. Your imperfect memory is a beautiful thing but yes it might fail you now oh well, no matter. Given this situ, "I think" your '83 stove instructions were also: "MSR STOVE SYSTEM INSTRUCTION MANUAL" (12 panel instr.) [like this '83] but "I think" if yours had WARNING USE ONLY MSR FUEL BOTTLES WITH YOUR MSR STOVE … extreme fire hazard. <-- that would have got your attention. Ya see it makes sense to me, your '83 instructions were a match to Smiles69 instructions. His (and mine) has the note and NOT the WARNING. That would all make sense. Now as for the learn more yet... we maybe have "an indicator" that in '83 there was not yet a WARNING. Was there "WARNING" in '81? '84?.... <-- that we might yet learn. '85? We know there's WARNING in '86 (seems like, maybe no warning in 83?). Just tossing it out here. 13,825 views
Using the later X-GK instructions for proof of use of the MSR fuel bottle does not negate the fact that the MSR fuel bottle is mentioned in the instructions for the G/GK stove I posted the photo of. Even if it does not coincide with the date code of the stove it does show that the MSR bottle was introduced during the manufacturing of the G/GK series of stove. That is all I claimed. All the other minutia of data only muddies the waters. Ken
I purchased my X-GK from the REI mothership in downtown Seattle, apparently in 1992. My memory is not infallible, but I'm pretty sure I purchased a Whisperlight prior to that, and while the stove was traded off, I have a battered 1 pint Sigg bottle with the MSR sticker applied to the bottom. I'm quite certain in any event REI would not have "allowed" me to buy a Sigg bottle for the Whisperlite, if it were not considered acceptable for use, I would not have tried to cheap out in any event. I vaguely recall something verbally conveyed by the staff to the effect that only Sigg branded bottles were to be used. By the time I bought the X-GK, I must have purchased the 1 quart MSR branded bottle. Or maybe I thought I needed the extra fuel capacity? What I'm getting at though is there may not have been an arbitrary cutoff for when the MSR branded bottles debuted and the instructions were modified to reflect the new guidance. Or at least there was a period where Sigg bottles were still at least tacitly considered acceptable, despite official pronouncements from on high. It must have put MSR in a bit of a quandary, because of the liability exposure - and what might be considered (legally) an admission of guilt, as it were - they had to be careful not to imply that every stove heretofore sold up to that point was unsafe, yet at the same time, they did want to require the use of their newly manufactured officially approved and consecrated "safe" fuel bottles. If it were so critical, an easy solution would be to give every MSR stove owner a new fuel bottle. As far as I know, this didn't happen. At least, I never got one. They sort of tried to square that circle for a while with the guidance noting to avoid certain imported bottles with the dished bottoms. I would deduce from all this pretty much what everyone else has long suspected, reading between the lines, Sigg bottles work fine, but Sigg didn't want the exposure, and MSR therefore needed to come up with their own branded bottle as there was no alternative.
Ken's @snwcmpr instructions make it clear the MSR fuel bottle was available and recommended by MSR "way back" in pre-XGK days, regardless of my (or anyone else's) memories. That kind of documentation is a real value this site provides. Also, I want to reiterate the point (made by several others) that folks should use an MSR stove (or any stove) in the safest way possible. It may be acceptable to run one with its original pump and bottle as a demonstration under controlled conditions (all maintenance up to date, cleared site, safe perimeter, large bucket and fire extinguisher at hand). But for field use, please use the newest pump and the MSR fuel bottle, and check those seals before you leave. ....Arch
+100 on what @ArchMc wrote above!! It cannot be stressed strongly enough, and this is very important for the sake of safety!! Doc
That's a good point, the plastics (and rubber) especially, don't have a good track record AT ALL over time with respect to exposure to petroleum based fuel. What was "safe" last year, may not be this year. Ethanol is also a component in automotive gasoline, and very commonly used in the multi-fuel stoves. This is even more problematic. The ability to use automotive fuel was a selling point. And 1982 or even 1992, was a long time ago. Truth be told, I don't believe the Sigg bottles are a particular safety issue other than CYA boilerplate. Did MSR in their written instructions at any point ever explicitly recommend the Sigg bottles by name? That is, prior to the introduction of the MSR branded bottles. Note at some point in the examples provided above they did recommend avoiding certain knockoffs and el-cheapos. But the MSR basic design goes way back, to maybe 1970 or thereabouts? It was just implied certainly, "Hey! Here's a stove that works with the fuel bottles you're already carrying anyway". The Sigg bottles were everywhere.
A point to remember about 'way back then'. The Sigg bottle was designed and used for carrying fuel. It was 'most likely' never intended to be pressurized. I figure that there were not any fuel bottles like what MSR made, later, available at the time. I am sure there were a few incidents of fuel leaking around the threaded insert of the Sigg bottle that prompted MSR to get the new designed bottle made with cut threads. I recall having a sigg bottle long before an MSR stove. It carried fuel for the 123.
Right, the SIGG bottles were excellent from a technical standpoint. The knockoffs weren't. But neither were designed nor intended for this purpose. MSR didn't offer their own branded bottles for what, maybe 10 years or so? Most people who already owned the stoves didn't see the need. If they were safe then, they are safe now. Or were they lying? SIGG undoubtedly appreciated the fuel bottle purchases, but there is simply no getting around liability exposure in a lawsuit free for all country like the United States. It is surprising this unofficial arrangement lasted for as long as it did. This is almost certainly the main reason why MSR offered their own branded fuel bottle.
My first pressurized bottle type stove was a Sigg fire jet. Needless to say I used/use a Sigg bottle. Later when I bought a Nova it came with a bottle marked Brunton. I’ll have to look to see it might also be marked Optimus. I have a MSR bottle- but no MSR stoves.
Sigg were made to carry fuel, not be pressurized. I would have to look at the G/GK instructions. But it was not 10 years (IIRC). MSR changed the fuel bottle because of the possible leak around the thread insert.
I've never seen a SIGG bottle leak. Not to say it can't happen. They weren't "made" to be pressurized per se, but they handle pressure. They have to handle some, there's no way around it. I have seen the results when a SIGG bottle is overfilled with fuel, a hot day, altitude or barometric pressure changes etc etc, whatever, did the rest. Of course this is why air space is always required for any container. The bottle was ominously ballooned - and obviously unfit for further use. But, it held. Very impressive. SIGG made first quality bottles. The low pressure involved with the MSR pump & stove arrangement is nowhere near the design failure point, but I suppose allowances had to be made for outright abuse. If a stove has a pump on it, why, it must be just like a Coleman, goes the thinking, I'm afraid. 35 to 50 strokes, here we come!
This thread started in 2011 and are still og great imortance. @Doc Mark has focused on safety several times, and I and probably others need to be remained about safety focus. I have several bottles form more or less well known makers. I like to inspect and test them out, I learn a lot, and get scared now and then. My old Sigg bottles has threds in a ring but are still working well. Some "china bottles" has it in the same aluminum as the bottle, and seems to be better. The threads are visually equal but when found a Chinabottle in the basement this week, It looks so great! BUT the Sigg cap did not fit, neighter the Trangia cap, or the pumps from MSR, they had all slightly bigger diameter. The pumps from Primus, Optimus and my China stoves did fit well. Will that say that the threads of not SIGG,MSR or Trangia has less diameter, and will not sit tight in the bottles? May this be a risk?
@dsk There are different thread profiles on early vs late MSR pump threads, and in older vs newer bottles. The thread diameter and the thread pitch (turns per inch) are the same, but older threads are round and new threads are triangular. You can fit a triangle thread stove or lid into a round thread (bottle) but not the other way. My newer non-MSR bottles will only accept newer MSR pumps, not older ones. But regardless of bottle brand and age they will accept current style MSR pumps. Just checked on my 2yo Primus bottle and my 45yo Sigg. Not an issue back in the 70s/early 80s! The threads of bottles (Sigg and MSR) matched the pumps. And on the above, my early 80's stove came with a Sigg bottle and the instructions recommending this. OTOH I don't think a 40+ year old bottle of repeatedly stressed aluminium is entirely safe! It's been retired from pressure duties. No bulging though.
To go back to nearly the beginning of this thread, this statement is wrong. The Primus bottle I have does indeed have a thicker neck, and the Duraseal deforms around it. But the seal has this flexibility and does indeed seal if you screw it fully in.
The main intent of the durasal seal was to make the pump hard to use with other bottles. It came out not long after MSR stopped using Sigg bottles and created their own. Certainly the durasal pump I have fits best in the MSR bottle. It fits well enough in a new Optimus bottle but the seal has to deform to fit. The pump will screw into an old plain Sigg bottle without the seal but not with it. It will not screw into an anodized Sigg bottle as the threads bind but the cap of that bottle screws into other bottles ok. My Chinese bottles some fit ok some are too loose to trust. Where the durasal seal prevents use the 2 obvious solutions are replace the seal with a flat one or just cut the lip off the seal
I must say I love my Whisperlite not so much the plastic pump. my question is has anyone on the forum ever done a conversion to use a Nova or Polaris pump on an MSR stove? I did see a topic converting a Primus pump to a different stove (I do not recall the make) somewear on here. Advice will be appreciated.
