My first real issue with standard stoves was hunting in winter out west. Temp can get down to about -10c, but even at 5c the butane stoves would struggle given the internal cooling. I searched for options and couldn't find anything that would suit with standard butane styles and eventually ended up with Coleman sportster 533. The Coleman works well for car camping, but doesn't really suit backpack use. I use unleaded in it mostly-white gas/naphtha/shellite is horrendously expensive here and not easily available at $14ish per litre compared to $1.80 currently for unleaded. I do have the ability to distil unleaded, but it's a bit of effort and lack of energy means I just don't bother much. Anyway, I came across mention of inverted canister stoves and it would likely suit my needs at certain times. Most of the cheap cans I use have some propane in them so will be able to hold pressure when used upside down down to the temps I would get to (the propane boils off first when used upright if you're unaware). I've seen some cheaper stoves on AliExpress with the pre warmer tube. I figure for butane it only needs to get it over 5c, rather than like a white gas stove that needs to get it much hotter. Part of me is tempted to modify a hiking stove I have (on top of canister style) to have remote canister and a preheat tube before the tube goes under into the gas inlet. Just thought I would check in here to see if anyone has any input into this before I go playing with the idea. Should the heat tube just run next to the burner flame to warm a bit, or go right through it like a white gas or Kero stove? Could getting it too hot cause potential problems? I'm thinking pressure could increase too much in the pipe, but then there's only pressure when the valve is open. Maybe just a pressure valve while testing for safety. Anything I'm not thinking of here? Appreciate hearing any ideas from those with some idea on these Cheers, Stu
@disco stu I appreciate you’re inclined to modify a stove you have, but I can recommend an Optimus Vega as a worthwhile option. I bought mine used for not a lot and it’s served me well. Packs small. It has fold-out gas cartridge inverter struts, the stove’s pre-heater loop vapourising a liquefied gas feed after a short initial warm-up with the gas cart right way up. It’s very responsive to setting a simmer, a feature I’ve found invaluable for using my Outback Oven, coupled with it’s low height/topple free characteristic and the remote gas cart to get it well away from the hot zone. John
Thanks presscall. Getting a good simmer is something that I really desire also. With the valve/needle being out of the gas canister, it is still easy enough to control the flame I'm guessing, since you mention it simmering well. How long do you need to warm up with can upright? I'll check them out, though I kind of can't help myself trying to have a play myself. If I find one of those cheap though I'll grab for sure
Thanks guys. A few seconds warm up is faster than I expected. My hope is to be able to use these with the cheap bayonet spray can style canisters, set it up with the pick up tube lowest to pick up the liquid. They contain some small amount of isobutane or propane if you buy the right ones, which is basically useless when using them upright but should help here. The reason is the cost of these is about 1/10 the price of buying the squat screw on style hiking canisters around here so would be nice to take advantage of that. I did think of one potential issue with my original idea for modifying a cheap stove I have here. I was thinking of liquid out, through heating tube then into the normal gas input and use the existing stove needle valve. Temp of the gas coming in could be an issue with the o rings in the valve. Assuming nitrile there I figure I want to aim to keep it under 80°c for longer term reliability. This idea looks reasonably easy to make up a test one to check the temp at least. Appreciate the responses
Svea 123r I only go camping and touring now. My go too is a Sigg s/s Trangia 25 set up with a butane burner and meth burners. I take at least my trusty old 111t along,rigged for metho these days, or maybe another stove or two if I can sneak them in. Good to have options and fun. The cheap gas Trangia burner has lasted a few years. The orings on the control valve have set up nd in liquid feed mode with butane spray cans, now leaks at the control stem. I will replace them or the whole setup soon. The linden to butane bayonet adapters work, but slobber or lubricate the tiny oring they seal with. Something to keep aware off. They worked in the snow a couple of months ago but the set was from a cool van to frozen outside temps. Much better than the box type. I did put the can next to the outside of the trangia to get the pressure up as they tend to freeze at the valve as the gas Venturi thing cools them and pressure drops. Liquid feed worked well. No dramas with pressure in the cans till we drove back down to earth from the mountains. The there was little pressure left and liquid feeding saved the day. Simmering can be done with a fine nearly off valve backed off 1 to 3 /50ths of a turn. Probably a proper setup may be easier. I have tried a few ways to keep the can warm in side wind shields on different set ups to a few drops of metho along the can and a flick of the bic to warm. One has to keep an eye and ear out all the time. Wire from the burner to the can etc. Frankly now. I cook on the stoves. Simmer and just heat water in the trangia and with metho I can have a snooze. And if the wind happens to blow it out. Dinner will only be a bit later. Many options to consider. I’m taking this for a play on the weekend. It’s so cold I may have to wear a flanny.
Thanks BarraBruce. I just actually purchased one of those gas burners to go in a trangia on aliexpress for $17 or so. Thinking about it, buying one of them already set up will be a lot less stuffing around than trying to make/modify what I have here (how many times do I have to learn that lesson). If it works alright I'll just make a stand or fit it into something I have here. I can probably throw on a larger burner into that if needed which will be easier than trying to make preheat tube for the stove here. Buying some butane rated tube is half the price or more of buying that stove already set up with everything. You must be up north if you're only considering a flannie. Windy and cold here, but I don't mind the wind in winter as at least the clothes dry-no direct sun where we are and a weird micro climate due to tall hill with tall trees on northern side. Just be dripping wet with dew for weeks at a time over winter, and can be up to 12C colder in daytime than in town less than a km away. Hearing about a lot of stoves here I was never aware of in the past. The 111T looks cool also. There is something about the liquid fuel stoves with vaporisers that just really intrigues me. There aren't many around these days being sold new compared to back in the day it seems. The thought of trying the liquid butane idea here is more for practicality. I can't believe I never came across the idea before, or that it didn't occur to me
My burner and adaptor arrived and I've had a bit of a play. Stove has hose of about 400mm with the throttle on the canister end. It definitely works inverted. I checked the temps on the brass line that runs into the flame wondering if solder would work for joins and similar. Not a chance as it got to over 260 degrees C near where it goes into the bottom of the burner. With the long hose, when it's in liquid mode there is quite the delay on throttling it and even shutting it down. Given the long time you have no idea if you've turned it down too much so it takes a bit of faffing to get the flame you want. I pictured this being an issue before using it and figure a valve on the hard line itself would give much better control. Would want it on the liquid side and there would still be a delay, but nowhere near as long. There is pulsing at higher flame also, which travels down the line to the canister. I think the jet is just a smidge large. It's marked "39" which I assumed to mean 0.39mm, but I measure it at between 0.30-0.35. I can't get 0.36mm wire into it and 0.30 is easily fit. I don't have a smaller jet to try in it, but it's not a massive issue as throttling it back helps stop it. So I'll have a play and see if I can add a valve on the hard line close to the burner and see if that makes a difference
Sounds like it’s mostly right then. They are all about the same. You have to shut it off lightly and let the flame dwindle down, waiting for the liquid to gasify and exit the nipple. The ’on’ bit is pretty spontaneous. The play in the threads and oring tension will seam weird and touchy when you let the spindle go. I soft touch will get you there with practice. Bit of an art to it. Could say the controls are tender as a school girls heart
Thanks Bruce. I'll keep playing and see i can get the feel for it. Still feel like control at the stove end would make things more settled. I'll look into adding one
Stu That’s why big names can probably charge big money for burners, if you want a safe and easy controllable burner for long term serious use. Made a thread. Hope it helps
