Ive come to the conclusion that most of the stoves . Including the beloved kero 111 I'm finally soon to be the proud owner of. Have too much excess useless heat. Excluding boiling huge pots of potatoes or corn, or melting snow on Everest . Or Sauteing onions , peppers or garlic. Anything I end up using needs to be turned down to cook decent meals. Pretty darn low. Or everything burns. 8Rs , or 123s even. My Sigg set was just about off and still too hot for eggs. 111s about the same . Even Steaks and hamburgers cook about the same or they end up well done outside and not in the middle. Just about everything edible cant take the heat . Really the two brass 3 leggers I have do a real nice job with the heat on a wide pan or skillet. And they arent decent ones either. So , why do I need all the heat.
Eggs Actly. When ever I see someone bragging that it only takes 3.49 vs 3.55 mins to boil a pot of water with their favorite stove, I wonder -- but can you make a pot of rice or oatmeal? Heating water, melting snow, the heat comes in handy but after that?
Hey, Guys, Great points, and well worth discussion here. It all comes down to versatility! To Sweet Bride and me, any stove that won't "do it all", is not really worthy of our consideration, when it comes time to choose one for a nice adventure! But, our criteria for choosing a stove may well be different than yours. That's what makes it all so cool! 8) When backpacking, we want a stove that will boil water like the gates of hades, in case we need that feature. We camp where snow might have to be melted for water, and trying to use a weak stove, or one without lots of power, is just a waste of your time, and your fuel! Also, as I was telling Brother Tim today, in our phone conversation, we've had to boil/sterilize water, too, even after using our water filter, when our water source was cow-pie-filled sink holes, on the PCT!!! We could not rely on our filter, alone, with such overwhelming fecal contamination! So, rapid boiling, for us, is a must! However, we also COOK real food, which we home-dehydrate, ourselves. So, we definitely need a stove that we can crank down to a mere whisper of a simmer!! So, how do we get both things? Ahhhh, Grasshoppers, glad you asked!! We choose stoves that are versatile, and can "do it all"!! A few that can satisfy our needs are: - Optimus 111 stoves, all of them, but especially the 111T. (All too heavy for real backpacking, but for car camping, they're great! Also, if you can split up the load, you can sometimes justify taking such a stove on a backpacking trip. A long-time project goal is to cut up a Sigg Tourist cookset to fit a 111 stove. Then, it would be just about perfect for backpacking, too. Someday, maybe I'll get 'round to doing it.....oh, well....) - Optimus #11 Explorer. - Optimus 199. - Optimus Ranger #10. - Coleman Multifuel, and Peak One Apex II. - Coleman Model 400, the early versions. - MSR Dragonfly. - MSR Firefly (To us, this is simply a fantastic stove. Your mileage may vary, but ours has never let us down, period! Ours boils water faster than ANY other stove, and simmers with the best of them. It also has a fantastic proprietary windscreen that, with the proper truncated pots, can boil water even when in gale winds!!) - MSR X-GK, any of that tribe, WITH the addition of a good simmering plate! We would trust, and have trusted, our lives to this wonderful stove! - Optimus Trapper 81. Not quite as hot as the others, but boils water better than any other Meths stove, AND it simmers wonderfully and quite easily, which few of the other Meths stoves can do, period! - Optimus Nova. I saved one of the very best, for last! Great little stove! Boils water very well, simmers very well, packs small and light, and burns several fuels, in addition to being very reliable! Our current choice for most of our backpacking and outdoor cooking needs! Now, add a small simmering plate to your SVEA 123 kit, or for your 8R, and you can simmer very well with them, too! Again, it all depends on what you need. But, for us, we would never consider a stove which cannot give us both things: power, and delicacy!! Hope that explains at least our view on it. Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Diesel--what you need is a Peak Feather --it's almost a classic by now and you can-------wait for it----------simmer these old kero burners are the model T's of the stove world..first to hit the road but they leave something to be desired..did i mention you can get them in any color you want,as long as it's brass --i do belive that there are connoisseur's of kero who can tweak that air valve ever so slighty as to acheve "simmer"
Hmmm, versatility. Well I have a prettty decent selection . The Nova is top notch . No single burner Colemans though. Coleman made so many flops and great discontinued stoves that I never tried to figure out what was decent. I've had quite a bit of trouble with old 500-502 series Colemans and old heaters. . Once I discovered 111s dont need maintenance if you got a good NRV. And no spare gas generator is needed. . So 90% of the time I dont need the heat. For the most part this past year Ive been cooking outside at home on the stoves. Trying to make real meals . Anything will boil water too. Except being in snow . I understand the need to be able to boil water as fast as you can put snow in the pot. Or being dehydrated or stranded. The speed is still convenience. For cooking , It looks like 10,000 btus of heat is absolutely unnecesary then.
Hey, Diesel, It all comes down to apples and oranges, really. You believe that 10,000 BTU's are unnecessary, and I believe that 10,000 BTU's are just about perfect!!! See? Apples and oranges!!! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I was not lucky enough to find myself soaking wet, shivering in 30 miles-an-hour wind in the cold, rainy night, but was trying to cook a pot full of lunch for three on a windy beach in Point Reyes National Seashore. I was using the folding windshield, but the wind kept knocking it over. I had to hold it with my hand. And I was using an 8R. The pot was warm after 15 minutes, but no boiling. I gave it up and walked back to the car and took out the Omni Fuel. We was eatin' in short order. I could easily imagine what things would look like with a mighty 8R, if I were somewhere cold and wet and windy. You have to have the firepower, if things get more than breezy, unless you are sheltered.
Hey, B2M, Wonderfully stated, and absolutely true, too! Thanks for a little different slant on it, which adds to the versatility argument. Always better to have a little more than you need, "just in case"! I can see you holding the windscreen for that little 8R, and trying to decide if you should go get the Omnifuel! Outstanding bit of luck that you had it, when you needed it! Thanks for sharing the experience, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
....and in the rain, and in the ice, and in the wind, and really just about any time you want to use your stove!! 8) Doc
When I go for a weekend backpack trip and plan on real cooking, I bring my Coleman Peak1 model 400 stove. It has proven to be reliable and very adjustable. This stove will boil water fast and simmers better than my gas range at home. This stove works so well, I sometimes cook meals on it at home. My girlfriend looks at me funny when I do this.
Hey, SB, That old Coleman Model 400 was our very first backpacking stove, and it's still going strong, even after all these years! As you say, it's wonderfully reliable, boils water like a volcano, and simmers delightfully! Needs a little wind protection, but what stove doesn't? (I can hear some screaming "Trangia", even as I type this!!!) 8) In any case, it's a fantastic little stove, and would have even been more popular than it already was, if the Backpacking Press hadn't gotten into bed with MSR and their crappy Whisperlite series of stoves!! The Model 400 craps all over the Whisperlite stoves, in all respects, and is WAY more reliable, to boot!!!! Yep, you have a good one, there, Single Burner, and and fine single burner it is, too!!! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Doc, I tend to agree, I never understood the popularity of the Whisperlite. The stove it was trying to replace did everything much better.. that would be the X-GK. I guess this is when MSR focused on marketing and not on function! Ron
Ah! Coleman 400! My first stove backpacking stove was Coleman 400A! How sweet it was to use it one day on the way to CA from East Coast (I had to have my own share of getting to know the stove with the generator clogging. I had no idea how stoves worked, when I bought it). I did not want to carry gasoline in the vehicle over the long journey, so I thought I would use the Sterno for all cooking duties. How safety conscious I was! We did not have use it until we got to Minn. or Neb., for we always ate in restaurants. We were sitted under a canopied rest area picnic table for 20 minutes, and we was gettin HUNGRY. I said at one point of the hunger induced delirium, "He-ll with this!" I drove to the convenience store at the rest area and bought a gallon of Coleman and filled the 400A. Ahhhh! Fire is good! How satisfying it was to watch the pot of water come to a rolling boil in 4 minutes! To think Sterno would do it! I retired that trustworthy 400A when I saw a Primus Yellowstone canister stove. Until then, I took that little 400A everywhere in CA and cooked innumerable meals at the rear of the minivan with the rear hatch open, rain or shine. But now I have brought it back out, and added a few friends to it: two 400s and one 508B. I gave 400 Feather to my brother. If there is going to be a "classic" white gas stove, the 400 series would be it.
Hey, B2M, Man, you are on a roll!! 8) I agree with you, 100%, and also think that the 400 series stoves was one of the very best, for what they were designed to do. I have two of them, and both are outstanding performers. My Feather is OK, but nothing compared to the 400's, which burn a bit hotter, and simmer tons better than the Feather ever has. I can see you know, cooking in the back of your van, on that old 400! Quite the picture, and one I can almost duplicate, except that our van didn't have a rear hatch to open!! Ahhh, the memories....! Great fun! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc (on the same page, and lovin' it!)
In the winter when you need to melt ice or snow to stay hydrated you need lots of heat. The 111 full blast isn't to much!
I've seen it a fair few times, the combination of a gassie at full blast, a 'camping' frypan not much thicker than tinfoil and precooked sausages burnt on the outside and near enough to raw in the middle. The fact that the person doing the cooking is hopeless at it doesnt help either My all time fave frypan, the Trangia nonstick with folding handle is actually quite sturdy and spreads the heat nicely. It matches the 123 beautifully. The 111 monsters it at more than about 1/2 speed. I think the problem stems from the 'it has to be as light as possible at all costs' line of thought. I'd rather have the pan weight a couple of extra ounces and be a usable thing than an ultra lite dealie thats hopeless to cook on. Trangia could easily make their cook sets grams lighter, but dont. There has to be a point there some place... MMmmmm...boerwors......
Hey, Mike, Do not try to adjust your televison set, as you have just crossed the line, into the..... THOUSAND POST CLUB!!! HUZZAH!! =D> =D> \ \ =D> =D> \ \ 8) Congrats, Mike, on your 1,000th post here at CCS!! Both you and Brother Dave skipped across the line, pretty close together, and Brother Lance is heading for 2K, probably on his next post, if not already!! Great to see such wonderful participation here at CCS!! You guys all add a lot to the mix here, and your posts are always enjoyable, educational, and entertaining!! Regarding your point about "light at any cost", you are absolutely right on the money, Mike!! WAY too much consideration has been given to making everything as light as possible, and in the end, you have gear that either won't stand up to the rigors of outdoor use, or gear that will not perform properly!! Sheesh!!! I'm with you: Give me some good, well-made gear, that was designed to function properly for a very long time, and that does what it's supposed to do, every single time!! And, you're right about the Trangia cooksets being that kind of gear. Yes, they do weigh a little more, but they also deliver the goods, too, whilst much of the feather-light stuff is a waste of time!! Great point, and well taken!! Again, congrats on reaching 1K!! Well done! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
I agree on the trangia stove as well I have a couple of em now and they are quickly becoming my favourite . very versatile and practical cooking kit
