I've been thinking about the astronomical cost of Coleman fuel in the UK and Europe, and the thought occurs to me that just as Petro for cars is heavily taxed there (Not that it doesn't have a hefty tax here as well) I?m guessing Coleman is also taxed, and perhaps hit with import tax?s as well. I know Automobile Petrol and Diesel are taxed way past what is charged in the US. For those in the US still able to buy Coleman as cheap as $7 count your blessings; in my neighborhood, its hit $10, and more, depending on the source.
Interesting site, for UK wages. http://www.gmb.org.uk/Shared_ASP_Fi...403F-B3E6-F4541EF49FF2_4digitSOCASHE20061.pdf
Sorry there Novice, sometimes I am just too literal. Quite cheap by comparison, yes, I had known that for some time now, just missed the joke. Took it literally and went off on a rant, again, sorry. So, what's the cheapest you can get Aspen 4t in the states? anyone? Best, Randy "Novice's joke was easy enough to get" -Ed-........
Hello Steve http://www.aaoil.co.uk/environment-Aspen-4T-alkylate-petrol Its primary use is for the petrol powered garden tool market as a cleaner alternative to using car petrol. Of course with Coleman the low price it is in the US, there is no point in stoveheads over there using Aspen, it will be a lot dearer so you can fogeddaboutit. (See the terrific Johnny Depp in Donnie Brasco) [media=youtube]dgpUf1psloY[/media] Our agonies with Coleman are strictly a non US problem. I was going to try car fuel in my 123R until I learned from this forum that it is highly undesirable for petrol stoves because of the additives in the modern stuff which can create deposits in the burner, have especially noxious and toxic fumes both from the liquid and its combustion and so on. This despite the fact that these stoves and similar ones were actually designed originally to use car petrol. However that was in the times before the modern stuff was developed with all its additives. So I found out about Aspen here and decided to give it a go. The other alternative to Coleman that is frequently advocated on here for UK users is naphtha based panel wipe, a degreaser for car body preparation. I've not tried that yet and won't be in the near future because my 5L can of Aspen is going to last me for years in my SVEA. regards
I've only heard of spen here... But i have heard of "environmental gas." It seems like this might be the same thing as it is meant for mowers and weed wackers and such.
Sounds likely. The Statoil alkylate stuff we can buy here in Norway is sold as "environmental gasoline" intended for the same uses you mention. Knut
Taxes may play a role here, but I don't believe taxes alone can explain the cost of Coleman fuel in Europe. I think most people consider Coleman a winter fuel: use gas cartridges whenever possible, and switch to Coleman only if/when you have to, ie. during the winter. If I compare Norwegian prices (as far as I know), I can buy Coleman fuel for about the same cost as the cheapest butane/propane mix cartridges available (about 90 NOK (or 16 USD) per kg). Normally the cartridges cost quite a bit more than that. I guess it makes some sort of sense - you can have a good 'winter fuel' for about the same price as your main fuel. This is pure speculation, but I suspect the price of Coleman fuel is determined by how much most people would be willing to pay, rather than actual cost. And by "most people" I'm not refering to stove enthusiasts, but rather those that need a winter alternative to gas canisters. Which in turn makes this a (very) small volume - and correspondingly high cost - product. If any Coleman pushers in Europe happen to read this, their comments would be highly appreciated. But once again, this is just my thoughts, I have no facts whatsoever to support them. Knut
Knut is on the right track. The principal reason for the enormous price difference of Coleman in UK/Western Europe compared with the US is lack of demand here. There may be some tax issues but they don't explain anywhere near the difference. However it's not really about winter fuel, there is no appreciable demand for winter fuel because almost nobody goes camping in the winter for leisure reasons. Virtually all the demand for camping stove fuel arises in good weather but the fact is that as far as the leisure camping/outdoor market is concerned, which as I say is almost wholly a fine weather pursuit, the liquid fuel stove is more or less finished here in favour of the gas cartridge type. Look in any camping shop, mostly they don't even sell petrol or paraffin stoves any more. It is actually difficult to find a supplier of petrol stoves in the UK. The effect is that because the demand for Coleman fuel is so low in the UK, because of the almost 100% shift to gas cartridges, the suppliers can charge what they want to that very small market that still wants it. In contrast, the US still has a large market for liquid fuel stoves and hence Coleman is available everywhere and cheaply to supply that demand. Unfortunately for us petrol stoveheads, this situation is only going to remain static or worsen. I can't see any shift back to petrol from gas. After all if we're honest gas is superior to petrol in every way for the average camper/outdoor type, that's why it has become so popular. Consequently I believe Coleman will remain at its massive price here and hence we will use alternatives like Aspen or panel wipe, thus reducing even further the demand for Coleman.
I'm not familiar with the European market as a whole, and should probably limit my speculations to Norway or possibly the scandinavian countries. If you go to one of the better sports/outdoor stores and ask for stove advice, you'll probably get the question whether or not you'll use the stove in winter conditions. If no, buy a gas cartridge stove; if yes buy a multifuel. Quite a lot of people in our corner of the world go to the mountains during their winter and/or easter holidays, and some of them will need a stove to go with them. Hence the need for a liquid fuel alternative, but the demand is low. Powered garden equipment is much more common, and although I suspect most people use ordinary pump petrol for these gadgets, there is a market for "environmental petrol" which fortunately burns well in our stoves. For those with no interest in stoves - apart from cooking their meals - gas cartridge stoves are great. Knut
The trend to LPG for all camping stoves is marked in the States as well, of course, and has been for a long, long time. There are a lot of us "baby boomers" here who I suspect are the ones that have kept the liquid-fueled Coleman suitcase alive, because millions of us were raised on these in camp in the 50s and 60s. That said, just in the last 7 years that I have been a "stovie" and have really paid attention to these things, there has been a great fall-off in the stocking of petrol stoves in all stores, and they are entirely missing in the sporting goods departments of many that used to have a few on hand. To me liquid-fuel stoves are inseparable from car camping or hiking. I know perfectly well the convenience of propane for car-camping or butane for hiking, and in fact the latter makes some sense to me, though it is not something I'd use myself. But a propane stove for car camping to me is a sad thing indeed, right up there with TVs and other electronic gear in the campground. It's the same thing as using your gas range at home. What's camping about it? Well, I'm preaching to the choir here....
Managed to get a bit of work done on this little project over the last couple of days. Will try and get the test kit print-outs scanned and up here over the next few days. Quite surprised at the distillation results of unleaded gasoline Vs Coleman fuel. VERY narow boiling range on the Coleman fuel, which looks to be primarily Heptane, with a few shorter and longer chain hydrocarbons in there as well. Still trying to find some of the Alkylate petrol around the Hants/Berks border (same for Optimus "Arctic Fuel"), so if anyone knows of any suppliers, could they please give me a shout.
I read somewhere that Artic Fuel is just super filtered Naptha. So no stove problems. Well can't blame the fuel
Yes it seems to me that there is obviously a trend toward butane/propane stoves in the american market. It seems to me that the vast numbers of coleman suitcase stoves that were sold and are still sold contribute to the demand in the US for readily available camp fuel. Then there is always the f-150 of the backpacking world... the whisperlite. I imagine that there is(or possibly was) a steady stream of people walking into outdoor shops asking "where are the whisperlites?" Hell, I went into a bike shop and found them selling whisperlites here in olean. The liquid options are fading away, however... Dicks used to have the entire MSR line on display... Now they have a wisperlite and a pocket rocket bolted to a steel display. (well the wisperlite and the empty fuel bottle were bolted down... the pocket rocet screwed right off...to bad I'm so honest) The only place I really find cheap coleman... is at a big box store such as wal-mart. Outdoor shops are selling MSR superfuel or Crown camp fuel in the 1 quart size for around $10. I believe this is about what our UK brothers pay... more or less... I wonder how many half full cans of coleman are out there right now... It used to be that I'd go through about a gallon a year when I had 1 stove and went on fewer trips... Now I'm up to 3 or 4 a year. That 413g is a gas guzzler.
No question the upward trend on campstove fuel, ie Coleman, here is rather recent and perhaps ominous. It's in the wrong direction, to be sure.
Yeah, right... Half a litre of Coleman fuel (less than a British pint and probably about a US pint) of Coleman fuel costs up to about ?7.50 - that's $15! So one of your quarts would cost us about $30 - approximately THREE TIMES what you're paying...
Looking at the boiling range of plain old Coleman fuel, it looks to be mostly Heptane, which is what Optimus claim that their "Arctic" fuel is primarily made up of...
A US gallon = 3.78 litres and wih Coleman at 9.98 a litre that works out at ?37.72 a US gallon , about $75 a pop
I haven't seen it as 'cheap' as that for a long time. #-o The most expensive can I've seen was at an outdoor shop in Hawes in 2006 - ?7.24 for 500ml. Now if they charged that for 5 litres, I think they'd find a huge upsurge in demand - I'd certainly buy it, and I think Joe Public would soon see the price advantage over propane/butane...
