Well, I keep buying 123s and 8Rs without their flame spreaders and wanted a cost-effective way to fill the need I have. I could buy them, but I wanted to have fun too. I thought of a process and thought I would show you as I did it. My first flame spreader! Here's a way that you and I can make a flame spreader from some of your scrap brass or other metal. I thought it was quite simple and easy. I was able to do the whole thing in about 20 minutes. It turned out ok. I wasn't took careful about scratching the thing up since I thought it would get burned on the stove anyway. The next one will be nice and polished. I used some 0.5mm brass that is quite strong but flexible enough that I could bend it with a pair of pliers. The key tool to this process is a shop press. This made the job quite easy to achieve. The results follow. I have a 20-ton press that is operated by hand crank. You can pick one of these up for about $160 USD, which is what I paid for this one for working on vehicle wheel bearings and other high-pressure vehicle work. Never thought I would use it on a stove. The first step was tracing the pattern out from an existing flame spreader on to the material, which is an old brass serving plate. I used a Sharpie marker so the ink wouldn't smudge as I worked on it. I used a pair of tin snips to cut the flame spreader out. A good, sharp pair makes short work of it. You can see the other holes and cuts in the material for the other projects I've cut out to make silent caps. It was only fitting to make a noisy flame spreader from the same material. I spent some time smoothing down the edges with my Dremel tool so that I wouldn't cut myself on the rough edges (not shown). I also bent down the retainer fingers in my vise and pliers before I came to this step. Creating the dimple in the spreader seems to be the difficult thing to achieve on these things. I thought a hammer would work, but the work ends up with numerous dimples that don't look too aesthetically pleasing. I wanted the look of the original spreader. I chose a 2-inch ball hitch to do the job of creating the dimple with the right curvature. In choosing a ball-hitch, you have to make sure you use one with a rounded top, since a lot of them have a flat top on them. This one just happened to be nicely rounded. I'm sure you could find a large carriage bolt to do the same thing. Just make sure the carriage bolt has no stamping or embossing as these will show in the work. I placed the flat spreader on a 1-inch socket tool that I use to work on my vehicles. The socket supports the edges of the spreader as the ball is pushed down by my 20-ton shop press. It took a few pumps on the press' hydraulic crank to make the dimple. I made sure that the edges of the spreader did not slip off into the socket as the ball came down under the great pressure. If it slips into the socket, it could create a crease in the spreader, which is what we don't want. Also, a socket's edge tapers down into itself, which makes it the perfect form for the spreader so that a shoulder does not develop. Do be careful with these presses as they do develop lots of pressure. Be sure to not give the work too much pressure since this could destroy the socket if you are not careful. Wear eye-protection, just in case of flying debris. Here's the result of the press job. The under-side shows a fairly decent curvature of the spreader, which is what I was looking for. I believe this is key to a good and even flame. Here's what it looks like from the top. This is the first one so don't laugh too hard. I wasn't too careful about looks, mostly I was looking for function and process. It looks like the shop press method with ball hitch will do the trick. What I didn't show was the step to bend the fingers back to horizontal since the dimple pressing causes the fingers to point up at an angle. I took some pliers and bent them back down to horizontal to match the original part. It's time to try it on my over-used Optimus 8R. It looks like it fits perfectly. The steel flame spreader above is from a 123 that I have. The spreader that is now installed looks like it belongs. The first test is now over. On to the next. Here's the flame on the very first start up. The flame fingers look to be fairly even in length, as far as I can tell. I'll turn up the heat in a minute as it warms up. Ok, I turned it up a little more. The stove needs a little work to get a blasting furnace flame, but for this exercise, the spreader looks like it is acting like the original. Here's a shot from the side. Can't tell the difference from the original and the newly created one, which was my final goal. Looks like this will work until I can figure out a better way to make these things for some of my other stoves that don't have spreaders on them. Hope you like it, sam
Sam, once again you came through with flying flames Now if I only have a one ton press lying around. Well the ball hitch would not be a problem as well as the socket wrench. Perhaps a perfect center blow with a hammer on the ball hitch, a similar result would have the same results. Have to try it one of these days without waking up the neighbors at midnight. Ron
Nice work Sam! I'm trying to do the same thing. I have a thinner brass sheet I picked up at Ace hardware. ( couldn't find a piece in my junk right off ) Is the thinner brass going to be at risk for a melt down when I do manage to cobble one together. ( I'm thinking tin snips and peening hammer on a board with a hole... )
IDSG WEll done lad, and it looks really good. Now if only i had something besides copper to use for a flame spreader. Randy if you can make one from the top of a tin can (i have) you can make one from any brass. Remember the leg ends bend down onto the outside of the burner bell. Too thin will result in meltdown but i think you'd be fine with your thinner brass. lance
Nice piece of work. Not many will have a press but I wonder if an engineers bench vice would be up to the job? Also, and this probably calls for a dumb question alert, but what would be wrong with using copper sheet? Cheers, John
Hi all: Awesome job on the spreader Sam!! Yes similar results can be had using a stout hammer or a vice. ( have done it many times with great results depending on type and thickness of material) Mike...
Hi Sam, Great job. For people that don't happen to have a 20 ton press handy I've found that a large old fashioned wooden handled screwdriver held in a vice provides a good template for gently hammering the depression in the spreader. The key is annealing the brass first (heat up to cherry red and allow to cool) so that the brass is nicely malleable. To answer John's question about using copper, it would work OK, but copper would tend to start flaking due to formation of cupric oxide(?) during heating that flakes off as it cools. Cheers, Graham
Hey, Sam, Outstanding work, Sir!! Well done, in all respects!! Like most others here, I do not have such a huge press, but just seeing how well your flame spreader turned out, makes me want to try my hand at it, with whatever I have down in the Hobbit Hole. Again, very nice job, Sam! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi Sam a superb piece of work the press has made the job a lot easier there are loads of different tasks it could carry out in our hobby once again Sam a superb job
I don't have a press but thanks so much Sam and everyone else for all of the suggestions. I'm also one of those who seems to always be buying 123's and 8R's that are missing their flame spreaders. I sometimes will buy a stove cheaply off eBay with intentions of getting it for its parts and then can't bear to cannibalize it.
I betcha a person could rig up some sort of frame and using a bottle jack could make a small press, large enough to do flame spreaders. Or a shop vise with a suitably sized bearing race and a large stove bolt or even a big ball bearing or even a trailer hitch ball. Just need a third hand to hold everything in a vise until you could squeeze it. Bob
Wow! Thanks for all of the comments! I didn't realize there would be so many. As for alternatives for the shop press, one could use just about any heavy vise or hammer to do the job. You might have to be careful with a vise because they can only take some much pressure. I broke a craftsman vise a few of years ago doing some wheel bearing work and thus the shop press. I would go with the shop press since the prices on those are dropping. As of this writing, Harbor Freight has a 12-ton press for $129 USD, about the same price as an Optimus Nova. I'm sure the price could be justified if other tasks and jobs could be done on the press. There is also a 6-ton press for $89. I tried a hammer before and since I have poor aim didn't get good results, just smashed fingers. I made one but it didn't turn out anywhere near as good as this one. One thing about the press is that you have excellent control over the amount of pressure being applied and where to apply it - in one or two strokes, with great precision. So, it made the work a whole lot easier and a lot faster. How long did it take?: The operation to put the socket in place, place the flat spreader on top of that and lower the press on to the ball-hitch takes all of half a minute and then another 5 or 10 seconds to make the dimple (1 or 2 minutes to snap a good picture!). Most of my time was spent cutting the piece out of the material, bending the retainer fingers, and testing it out on my 8R, which had no fuel in it. All the best, sam
If the brass is annealed first you should be able to do this with a socket or piece of iron water-pipe, a ball-pein hammer and a rubber or copper mallet( not steel to steel, it may chip). Line them up and tap the flat face of the hammer with the mallet and it will go. I've made a few like this.
Zincman, I would have to agree that annealing works. I've used that process on other items and it works really well. I also did not want to insult or make anyone feel deprived for not having a press at their disposal. I figure it as just 'another tool of the trade or hobby' and wouldn't cost very much if you have the room to spare. If I did make people feel excluded, please accept my apologies! I'm sure the methods mentioned above by others could work too. I guess what I was trying to accomplish was a process for not just brass but for harder materials like hard or thicker steel and stainless steel. I would have to apply a lot of heat to these types of materials to use annealing to do the same thing in a few seconds on the press. My idea was to not heat anything up and form the metal without scorching the surface, like what happens to stainless steel after the first burn. My proposal would avoid the scorching that occurs on certain metals, to keep the surface looking as new as possible and avoid the need to do a lot of extra polishing. I'll still have to polish but not as much. Hope this helps, sam
Sam, most members here are resourceful and as such, even with the absence of a press would still be able to make a flame spreader. As for me, if buying the part itself is much more economical than having to buy a tool just to make it, I would go in that direction. But if I was challenged enough, I probably could make one in the absence of a press using ordinary household tools. Having said that, do you intend to make more of those? Am missing one flame spreader at the moment ha ha ha. Still am impressed at the way you made the spreader - give yourself a pat on the back and pop open a bottle of the best beer Idaho supermart has to offer. Ya deserve it! Ron
A very nice replica of the original. I have created similar shapes but not for stoves useing a vice and 2 formers. Not sure you would get enough pressure for stainless that way though but simple step shapes in 3mm mild steel no problem On a side note A long time ago I saw a post about a different flame spreader. No idea if it was on a related site or what stove it was on. This thing had 8 or so angled cuts which were then twisted to give a swirl to the flame. Does anyone else have any memory of this
Geeves, have no recollection but have a pretty good idea on the swirl part just like the jet propellers. Intriguing design which I believe was applied to the BrassLite alcohol stove perhaps. Ron
I've had this Enders Baby for quite a while and bought it without the flame spreader. It was a good deal but really hard to use without the spreader. So, I made one out of 18 gauge deck support galvanized steel, which is fairly rigid and difficult to cut and shape. It was difficult to cut but I managed with a pair of tin snips taking off a small piece at a time. I'll need to look into a laser cutter or something more aggressive. Anyway, I had to do a little bit of grinding to take off the rough edges. Bending the retainer arms was a bit of a challenge with the steel being so thick and hardened. I had to use two locking pliers to make the bends. The dimple was made with the shop press shown above using a small carriage bolt about an inch across the head, turned upside down. Freshly cut and fitted to the Enders Baby burner bell... Back on the stove after a bit of cleanup grinding and brushing... Turned up a little bit... Medium flame Simmering flame... The Baby needs a little bit of cleaning but otherwise I now have a stove that works and a bullet-proof flame spreader. sam
