Hope I posted this question in the right way and place. I would like to know if kerosene can be used in the old Coleman two burner camping stoves? Also, I just looked up the data sheets on Kingsford charcoal starter fluid. It is either pure Naptha ( white gas, coleman fuel, same thing..) or it is Naptha mixed with Kerosene. Is there any reason it wouldn't be as safe to use as Coleman fuel in a white gas stove? The reason I ask is that we have a recycling program here where folks turn their old chemicals into a central location and other folks go and "shop" for free. Unfortunately, The Fire Department gets all the Coleman fuel that's turned in. They use it for training. Just some info from our city as an offering of introduction. Cheapest place to buy kerosene in Denver sells the red dyed for $3.65 per gallon right now. All last winter it was $2.99 ( We heat with a couple of kerosun space heaters and still save at least half off of what the natural gas runs now. Cheapest camping fuel (Coleman, naptha) I could find was Coleman for $6.34 per gallon at Walmart. They didn't seem to have the "Ozark Trail" in house brand. I am 51 years old, my wife is 53 and I am going on my first real camping trip this spring....believe it or not. ( This being "car camping" on our own, not in a camp ground or anywhere near any type of civilization. ) So, there's a bit about me.
* Best Rod Serling impersonation* ' Picture a man going on a strange journey, a journey of brass and red hot metal, of nipples and plungers...' Let me be the 1st to welcome you aboard the ship of pyros, Matukat Fuel types and names is a common thread of discussion, undoubtedly an actual expert (not me) will be along shortly. It pays to run your stove on the right kind, trust me on this! Car camping has a lot going for it, mainly you dont have to lug your stuff very far, always a bonus if you are bone idle like me! To the best of my knowing, most Coleman suitcase stoves run handily on white gas, tho I have mine on car gas and lawn mower mix, not really recommended if only for the fumes given off by the burning additives. Off the top of my head I cant think of a Coleman stove that runs on kero (no doubt there are such things) A dead give away is to look for a preheating system, bowl for meths or some such under the burners Primus style. Petrol stoves dont usually need pre-heating, kero stoves do. Kero is a less frightening to use but prone to be a tad stinky, petrol is easier but has the WHOOSH factor in spades. I treat both with the respect they deserve. So far so good. You made mention of 2 stoves? We live for pictures! Stick around, set a spell, take your shoes off, this place can be a hoot!
In my opinion, if you have a functional older Coleman already, I'd fork out the little extra for the Coleman fuel and use that. A gallon will go a long way and it stores well. In the grand scheme of things, the cost of the Coleman fuel will be insignificant. I don't think any of the current coleman two burners will run on kerosene without some significant modificaitons. I have heard some folks mix coleman and kero (20-25% kero), but I do not seen a large cost benefit in that. In any case, I'd avoid the red dye kero. The 550B coleman is a good multifuel stove that will run on kero, but it is a single burner and I'd still not want to use the red kero. The other option is to pick up a dual-fuel coleman and run unleaded (not recommended but it works for some people).
Hey, Matukat, Welcome to CCS! The Guys are absolutely right. Use Coleman fuel, only, in your suitcase stove! Kerosene will not work in it. They are also right about staying away from dyed kerosene, too, no matter the color. Just gunks up the works and isn't worth the hassle, especially when you can have water-white, K-1 odorless kerosene for a good price. In the US, our unleaded auto gas isn't good for stoves, either, as it contains way too many additives, which mess up your head from the fumes, and your stove, too!! So, in the end, you're much better off buying regular, old, Coleman fuel, and also good water-white, K-1 odorless kerosene. You will thank yourselve for having done so!! Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Hi, Brand new here myself. I happen to use Kingsford charcoal starter regularly in my Optimus 8R and it works very well, however I don't think the Coleman design has the same tolerance for fuel variations. I find the Kingsford to be ?thicker? then the Coleman fuel, with slower evaporation and less flash when ignited. If you try to use Coleman fuel to start charcoal you will quickly discover the difference. (Though I would not recommend this). The Kingsford MSDS I looked at a while ago called it Heavy Naphthalene, but the Naphtha/Kerosene mix makes sense and must be an alternative formula.
When I light charcoal in the grill, I put kerosene on it rather than Kingsford etc. any more, then squirt a little alcohol on, then light it. Works well. Haven't priced it, but I would think that Kingsford lighter fluid would be a lot more expensive than Coleman fuel.....
Thank you all for the comments and welcome. On the kero thing, we heat with it. 2 "kerosun" heaters one at 18,000 btu and the other at 23,000 btu. We recently figured out that most of the time we need only run the small one and an electric space heater or two to keep the house warm. Last year we were getting K1 for 2.99 a gallon the whole season. This year, they switched to the red dyed stuff and upped the price in a five week period from 2.99 to 3.65 per gallon, where it has stayed, so more money for crappier kero. I put in about a 1/4 cup or so of denatured alcohol every other fill to help keep the wick from gumming up as fast as it might. Here is one part of one version of the material safety data sheet on Kingsford charcoal starter: OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY COLLEGE OF BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES MSDS FILE CLOROX -- KINGSFORD ODORLESS CHARCOAL LIGHTER MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET FSC: 9110 NIIN: 00N017391 Manufacturer's CAGE: 93098 Part No. Indicator: A Part Number/Trade Name: KINGSFORD ODORLESS CHARCOAL LIGHTER ======================================== General Information ======================================== Company's Name: CLOROX COMPANY Company's Street: 7200 JOHNSON DR Company's City: PLEASANTON Company's State: CA Company's Country: US Company's Zip Code: 94566 Company's Emerg Ph #: 415-847-6100 Company's Info Ph #: 415-847-6100 Record No. For Safety Entry: 001 Tot Safety Entries This Stk#: 001 Status: SMJ Date MSDS Prepared: 01AUG89 Safety Data Review Date: 18MAY95 MSDS Serial Number: BKQSK Hazard Characteristic Code: F4 ======================================== Ingredients/Identity Information ======================================== Proprietary: NO Ingredient: HYDROTREATED HEAVY NAPHTHA (ISOPARAFFINIC HYDROCARBONS) Ingredient Sequence Number: 01 Percent: 100 NIOSH (RTECS) Number: 1002859HN CAS Number: 64742-48-9 OSHA PEL: 50 PPM (MFR) ACGIH TLV: 300 PPM (MFR) ======================================== Physical/Chemical Characteristics ======================================== Appearance And Odor: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. Boiling Point: 345F,174C Vapor Density (Air=1): >5 Specific Gravity: 0.76 ======================================== Fire and Explosion Hazard Data ======================================== > Flash Point: 120F,49C Lower Explosive Limit: 0.7% Upper Explosive Limit: 7% Extinguishing Media: USE FOAM, WATER SPRAY (FOG), DRY CHEMICAL, CO*2 OR VAPORIZING LIQ TYPE EXTING AGENTS TO FIGHT FIRES. TYPE OF (SUPP DATA) Special Fire Fighting Proc: WEAR NIOSH/MSHA APPROVED SCBA & FULL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT (FP N). Unusual Fire And Expl Hazrds: COMBUSTIBLE. SERIOUS FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARD. AVOID ALL OPEN FLAMES AND ELIMINATE ALL IGNITION SOURCES. ======================================== Reactivity Data ======================================== Stability: YES Cond To Avoid (Stability): NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. Materials To Avoid: STRONG OXIDANTS SUCH AS LIQUID CHLORINE, CONCENTRATED OXYGEN AND SODIUM OR CALCIUM HYPOCHLORITE. Hazardous Decomp Products: NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. Conditions To Avoid (Poly): NONE SPECIFIED BY MANUFACTURER. ======================================== The reasons I want to know are (1) I am getting it easily for free from a recycling program, and (2) the price of the "Coleman fuel" seems high, but also, they seem to have a monopoly. I think Walmart has discontinued their store brand stove fuel, but I am calling to find out today. I have come to hate monopolies. In Denver there is one place you can get kerosene for under $4.50 a gallon and they are the ones with the red dyed kero. Biodeisel is HIGHER than deisel here. (unless you make your own) The big agra companies are just as bad as the big oil companies. I priced biodeisel at $3.40 per gallon about 2 weeks ago and petro deisel was $3.20 per gal. YEEEEESH. I NEED to go camping....for a LONG time....lol Thanks again for the responses!
Well, the question is really not a political question. Kingsford charcoal lighter fluid would either not work, or would work poorly, in a Coleman "white gas" campstove. It would be safe, which was your original question. This is because its volatility is not that of Coleman fuel, not by a long shot, and the highly volatile fuel is what the stove is designed to run on. A can of Coleman fuel will last you a long, long time. It's not like heating your house, after all! 8) We can find monopolies anywhere if we narrow the scope enough. Is there a monopoly in camp stoves and campstove fuels? No. Is there a monopoly in US sheetmetal 2-burner petrol-burning campstoves? Yes. And there has been for generations. But the monopoly power is rather severely limited by the product's complete lack of necessity. That's why you can find a brand-new Coleman suitcase liquid-fuel stove for so cheap. Just as you have been able to do for generations....
The first data sheet I found had 3 different formulas for kingsford charcoal starter fluid. One was just the heavy napthalene, one was the heavy napthalene and kero, and one was with chemicals I have not heard of (read "scary" chemicals....lol). If I find it again, I will post it. I have the suitcase stove (found in the TRASH, needed a pump) a Sears/Coleman 3,500 btu catalytic heater that appears to have never been ruined by someone using anything other than naptha. Tested it with Coleman fuel, worked correctly, glowed cherry red. (free from a clean-out job my son and I did) 2 kero heaters, and a couple of soda can stoves I made after seeing stuff on the web. Will have my eye out for the single burner pressure and roarer type stoves from now on. I tried biodeisel in one of my kero heaters and even mixed with kero, it doesn't like the wick. I did find it will burn with about a 50/50 mix, but it wasn't burning right and the kerosun's have a rubber sleeve that the wick passes through which would be a bad thing with the biodeisel. Biodeisel is like ethanol in that it will work as a solvent on rubber. Biodeisel will work in a roarer, I have read, so I would love to have a heater based on that type of burner. I don't know if you can get "white gas" other than the stuff packaged as camp stove fuel here in Colorado. Thanks Mike for the tip though. Thanks Doc and Goat for the feedback also, especially Goat for verifying my deductions. Seems like it should work fine in a pressure stove if it's a multi-fuel capable stove. I just don't have one yet....lol Thanks again everyone for your feedback. You too Ed!... It would be a lot more expensive if I wasn't getting it for free. We have a recycling program where you go look through what people have turned in from their garage, warehouse, basement, whatever and you sign a release and take what you want for free. We have picked up a quart of denatured, a gallon of citronella oil, a gallon plus one quart of lamp oil and a whole bunch of charcoal starter fluid. All of the lamp and torch oils were unopened, the denatured was unopened and most of the charcoal starter is unopened. Just stuff that someone bought and never used and then the house got sold or whatever. Good program. I'll post some pics of some of our stuff later, nothing all that cool, except maybe the old Sears catalytic. Oh, we found a 1968 Coleman lantern with two mantles in a thrift store that had NEVER been used. $6.00 and in perfect condition, even the pump. We were thrilled. Thanks to all of you!
"White gas" is of course an anachronism, which we still use from time to time to describe Coleman-fuel (or Blazo, etc) stoves, after stuff that hasn't been available for many decades. I could buy white gas as a kid (I'm a month short of 60) at the gas station, where they would pump it out of a barrel. I guess it was non-additive gasoline, usually to use in the lawn mower. I think I can safely say that there is no such thing anymore, except Coleman fuel and a couple of other proprietary campstove fuels, and they would say that what they sell isn't what used to be "white gas." Kingston would work reasonably well in most kero stoves, and you perhaps should pick up a brass keroburner or two and fire away.
You are right about the stove fuel Ed. I really have never used my stove for cooking yet! As I said in that last, I found it thrown away, we got the repair kit for the pump and tested it, it lit up fine and both burners worked and adjusted, so I am sure it will serve us well. ( I suspected that vaseline on the leather looking plunger part might have worked as well, but went ahead and bought the kit. As I am sitting here and typing my wife (who HAS been camping) verified the same thing for me. Apparently a gallon of naptha goes a long way with stoves, lanterns and heaters. We have all three now and I am a little concerned that we might go through quite a bit of fuel in one night. I have no real experience to base it on though...lol.. Just to give you an idea of how I think; I have two spares and usually a can of fix a flat in my car. I have TWO sets of jumper cables...just in case one won't reach....a floor jack and the jack that came with my tercel... We haven't gone for more than a day trip yet and in preparation for the spring camping trip I have a bucket with: 3 buddy burners, 1hobo heater w/2 bottles of alcohol, steel wool w/9 volt battery, waterproof matches and a cigarette lighter. Just in case. Also working on putting together a homemade "trangia" type set...not that I EVER anticipate going on a "through" hike.....just like the idea of making a stove and using it. All the best!
Be prepared! Especially with the buddy burners! A gallon of Coleman will give you plenty of cooking for a few weekends. Don't forget to bake! You've got a lot of fun ahead of you if you're just starting to camp.
That's a beautiful oven Ed, and even more beautiful biscuits!!! I cook as much or more than the wife and have not found a biscuit recipe that works consistantly for me. I think the people who threw away my Coleman suitcase had thrown away an oven too and I didn't know what it was for sure and thought it was too cheap to be much use, or that it wasn't all there, or worth picking up.....ugh....... Yes, I really am just getting into camping having lived 20 miles or so on the front range of the rockies for all but 8 or so years of my life. Had a heart attack, went to the hills to hike for exercise, (walking in the woods) Got into rockhounding and now I'm hooked. I want to go live out there! Homestead! Live in a cave! ........well, let's just say I want to live in the mountains. Colorado native and it took me forever to notice what I have in my backyard. Always appreciated it, but not to the depth I am going to. A lot of the rocky mountains are being ruined by commercialism, but there is so much out there that they can't ruin it all in my lifetime.
The Coleman folding ovens are not much to look at, particularly if they have been well used, but given a suitable heat source they consistently deliver the goods. These pages are littered with reports of bakes and roasts at least as good as the average domestic oven can turn out.
I just found out that the Walmarts in the Denver area do not sell any fuel other than Coleman per a contract with Coleman. Coleman has the same contract with Target, Dick's Sporting Goods and Bass Pro.......didn't we use to have anti-trust laws that would have prevented them paying to eliminate all competition? EEESH
WalMart had a fuel that was a little cheaper than Coleman; guess no more. I never saw it, just heard about it; I've not been inside a Wal-Mart. Blazo I saw once or twice here or there. It was never cheaper than Coleman. The other proprietary fuels (MSR I think) were grossly expensive. I've only ever bought Coleman, and 99% or better of the "white gas" fuel I've ever seen in my lifetime has been Coleman.
Hey, Ed, Same here. I've only used Coleman fuel, and better super happy with it. This goes back to my very first use of stoves, even before I actually owned one of my own! I borrowed a Coleman suitcase, two-burner, for a while and liked so much that I eventually bought one for Sweet Bride and me! We were hooked, after that, and have never used anything but Coleman fuel in white gas stoves. Why settle for anything else, when you've already found the best?!! 8) Take care, and God Bless! Every Good Wish, Doc
Matukat, I live in GJ just over the mountains from you, First off Welcome and hold on tight cause the Firebug has bitten you! I have used Coleman Fuel in pretty much everything I own and I do agree its a bit hard to swallow at just over $5 a gallon but I have not heard or used a quality substitute. This forum has hammered out most everthing even brought up, some thru Clinical trials, others thru just trying it, I even called the Supplier to find out if they had a bulk distributor close to us with no avail unless you want to buy a tanker or a railcar (I really had to think about that). I have been buying Jet-A Kero from our local supplier for about $3 a gal, It is clear aviation grade fuel and it works great. You might check with your local airports to see if that is available to you, just make sure they are putting any de-icing agents in it. I will PM you with my Phone number you can call me anytime if you have any questions. There is a couple of other CO guys here on the board and I am trying to get a summer Classic Campstove get together going. Maybe a weekend in our wonderful mountains or a lunch at a mountain town with some antique shop tours.
If gasoline is over $3 per gallon at the pump (sorry, Brits and Continentals....), then a gallon of Coleman, in a steel can, shipped to a sporting-goods store, is a bargain at the current rate.
I picked up a load of BBQ lighter fluid for about 20p/$40 a litre in an end of summer sale and its basicly kerosene, burns fine, plus I've had 2 really good deals on branded kerosene which means I have over 120 litres to hand now, enough for a couple of years I would think
