British military stoves - a multi-part question

Ok, I've got a No.2 and No. 3 so I know what those are. I've seen pictures of a No. 6, No.7, No.12 and a big 4 or 5 burner propane identified as a No. 5.

Was there a No.1? I've seen pictures of Primus brassies being used in the trenches in WWI which I assume were private purchase. Was some flavor of brassie the No.1?

What are Numbers 8, 9 10 and 11?

Did the Hurlock single burner have an assigned number? What other companies besides Hurlock made that version of single burner?

I've seen the pictures in the gallery of the T&C two burner. Any information on any other British or Commonwealth military stoves would be appreciated. Especially those in the 1914-1945 timeframe.

thanks in advance

 

Hurlock as a manufacturer - jury is still out. An opinion that I share is that they were a re-badger of government surplus. T&C, possibly others (also?) made the milspec stove we know as the Hurlock.

There were other post-war re-badgers:
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/polly-picnic-stove.12060/



I think these below could be classed as the No:1 - available as military or civilian. Turley & Williams (aka British safety stove) marketed the Junior for civilian market as well as milspec. That may imply other brands are contracted militay issue.

https://classiccampstoves.com/threa...unior-portable-stove-patent-late-1930s.28481/

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/r-ac-crossland-1942.29764/

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/r-a-g-crossland-mk-1-1942.18619/


There is a catalogue in the Library (catalogue sub-section requires subscription)

https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/1930s-the-british-safety-stove-catalogue.220/

 

Hi, Ross is in part correct, the ones shown above can be considered as the Cooker, Portable, Gasoline, No2 Mk1. Derived from the British Safety Stoves and Villiers Mar-Vil stove etc.

The actual Cooker, Portable, No.1 is otherwise known as the Hydra Burner or Hydra to the troops. I'm working on a history of the model just now, nearly completed. They were trialled and used between 1936 and the early 1990s.

There is an example in the reference gallery: https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-army-no1-burner.17768/

I'll get my two and their equipment up-loaded into the gallery in the near future but for now here's a photo of my "user"



Loco7stove Stu has first-hand experience of these beasts in the field, I've only cooked for 5 instead of 120 (or 250 mugs of tea) so far.......

Alec.

 

I've seen the Hydra at work, fully equipped with its cast iron "trench" with the oven at the end. Impressive piece of kit! The N°3 also has its own oven (I have one, and am twisting someones arm to get a second). THE most famous cooker used by the Brits must be the Soyer cooker, burns any solid fuel, even dried camel dung I've been told. Dunno if it also had a number. They were used for over a hundred years (mid 19th century till the Falklands conflict, where a ship with a load of them was sunk by the Argentines) and still popular with living history groups. Other than the N°1 & N°3 (and of course the Soyer) most cookers were used by small teams or individuals (the N°2 par exemple was used on armoured vehicles amongst others). Some of our members are experts on these.

Word has it many an officer got themselves a N°96 stove to make (or rather, have made for them) a nice cup o tea when in the trenches in the Great War. These where all privately bought, other than the "tommy cooker" (a tin filled with an alcohol jelly) I have no knowledge of small stoves officially in use in the Brit. army during the first war.

Best regards,

Wim

 

I'm not sure of the nomenclature but might there be a difference between 'burners' & 'stoves'

The one's I linked to I thought were prior to No:2 MkI

These were No:2 MK1 as far as I was aware & had labels for No:2 on lid
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-military-no-2.11239/
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/turley-williams-no-2-1953.883/

No:2 MKII (modified) with silent burner - 2 variants - either retrofited or as manufactured. These are marked as MKII's
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-military-no-2-mkii-modified-1974.702/
https://classiccampstoves.com/threa...of-parts-brit-army-no-2-modified-stove.25377/


Then you have these!
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-army-centreforge-cf82.8975/

Here's Ian's No:1 burner from Newark 2009

 

All,

Thanks for the great input so far. The Hydra looks like a great wonderful beast. I know that during the first war one of the standard means of cooking for large groups was to build a trench, usually with a length of railroad rail on each side, line the trench with coals and set dixies on the rails over the coals. I assume the trench and oven Wim mentions is the conversion of that idea to a standardized burner?

I've seen pictures of ORs using what looks to be a Primus No.5 size brassie in the trenches. Also wood fires in various tins, cans and barrels. Somewhat during WWI and to a much larger extent during WWII the petrol tin with the top cut off, half filled with petrol soaked sand was popular.

I've seen the nice leather cased, alcohol burner based, private purchase sets that were available to officers during WWI. Certainly they also bought any and all of the various Primus stoves.

I know the British Army issued British made variations of Primus stoves, I've got a Monitor that is dated 1951 and broadarrow marked. I've seen a similar Burmos, I think 1953 dated. These are Primus No.5 size. Did the Primus type stoves ever rate an official model number?

I'd love to get one of the ovens to go with my No.3, but shipping to the states means I might as well have it packed inside a Dingo as the price would be about the same.

Is it possible that the orange paint on the No.2 fuel tanks was to indicate petrol? I know that during WWII lend-lease rifles had a red stripe painted around the stock to indicate they were .30-06 caliber not .303. Could the orange have been meant to indicate "This isn't a kerosene burner"?

 

You might like this:
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/unused-1915-wd-primus-96-pocket-oufit.10382/

 

Be still my beating heart.... Well, that changes my thinking a bit. From the posts above I was coming to the conclusion that issued stoves came into being in the inter-war years, but the 96 is proof that the WD was buying stoves to issue very early in the first war. Now I'm thinking that it was standardization of specific models that started to occur during the inter-war years and that previously the WD had been using COTS (commercial off the shelf) stoves to fill the requirement.

I wasn't very clear in my original post that my intent was to discover the history of personal or small unit stoves/cookers. Obviously things like field kitchens, rolling kitchens and similar set ups to feed the masses in rear areas had been around for quite a while before the first war.

I'm going to look through my copy of a 1939 Army & Navy Stores catalog and see what's in there when I get home.

 

The notional lineage for the No.2 goes:

No.2 (retrospectively the No.2 Mk1): British Safety Stoves, Villiers Mar-Vil, Crosland etc, effectively the removable-tank type. Early 30s until late 1942. As per https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/r-ac-crossland-1942.29764/

No.2 Mk2, 1942 till mid 1970s, as per https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-military-no-2.11239/.

No.2 Mk2 Modified (why they never called it Mk3 is beyond me, the upgraded older units are more like modified candidates), Mid 1970s till 1992/93, as per https://classiccampstoves.com/thread...of-parts-brit-army-no-2-modified-stove.25377/

No.2 Mk2 upgraded to Mk2 Modified, Mid 1970s till 1992/93, as per https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-military-no-2-mkii-modified-1974.702/

Upgraded units easily identified by regulated burner with redundant notch for the control knob in the drawer.

No.2 Petrol was superseded by No.12 Diesel (yeeuch, stick to paraffin, but they do run fairly good on diesel).



Here's a No.2 Mk1 in a press photo at Aldershot Barracks in 1942, showing the joys of C-rations and a petrol cooker!

Alec.

 

Running a tad rich there!

Alec

 

Great picture. Do you have any documentation refering to the stove in the pic as a No:2?

 

I have a set of instructions with mine, unfortunately it is buried just now but there's:
https://classiccampstoves.com/threads/british-safety-stoves-no-2-mark-1-instructions.7617/

I will have a dig to locate more info, the No.2 timeline was going to be the next project but it is messier due to the number of contractors involved in manufacturing, Hydra held the sole patent for the No.1 between 1936 and 1951 and appeared to make most/all of the units during that time.

Alec.

 

That's great Alec. Many thanks!

 

Ross and Alec, thanks for increasing my knowledge of the various /|\ cookers. Looks like I've still got a bit to learn.

I found this site, the page I've linked to shows a Hydra in use with some of the larger cook tins and confirms my thought that the Hydra was the kettle trench concept adapted to a portable fire source. I had a good picture of a kettle trench with a row of dixies on it but can't for the life of me locate it now. Here's the link, the scroll bar is cleverly hidden just to the right of the lighter colored center section. http://www.freewebs.com/29thfieldkitchen/armycookers.htm

My 1939-40 Army-Navy Stores catalog list a huge range of stoves from the kero sad iron heaters up to household cooking ranges but none of the ones we've been discussing, just a bit to early I think. Under camping equipment they list a Coleman suitcase two burner and some Coleman lanterns, in a different section some Tilley lamps, lanterns and some Petromax stuff.

 

Observation based upon my own limited research (and opinion). The British brassys main service use was as medical sterilizers, not cookers. YMMV.

 

@cottage hill bill, I know this thread is almost as old as the war but I'd like you to see my 1915 primus 96 with name and date of (private purchase) owner. I love it and being able to trace the history and life of him, especially as I re-enact at various events as Great War unit cook means I have a two pronged interest in such things. Have enjoyed reading this thread even though it's old so thank you.Primus 96 1915 time machine!

 

Wondering if anyone has a better page 12 of the No. 1 burner manual, please?

The copy I have was scanned badly, and the page is creased. Have issues with points 4 (a) and (b)

Thanks

 

Just by reading your scan:

(a) detach the insulation panel

 

Reading from your scan:

(a) Detach the insulating panel (part no. unclear) by removing the securing screws (JB10968).
(b) Remove the burner from the fuel tank by unscrewing the (unclear) stud (JB10824) with spanner (JB10951) holding the hexagon nut of the burner boss with spanner (JB10952) to prevent burner moving. Care should be taken not to distort the burner body.

@Rangie might be able to shed light on some of it

 

@Dean
Insulating Panel JB10967.
Feed Stud, its the banjo bolt that holds the burner assy to the feed line

Alec.